Amenmesse - Seti II

Amenmose, 1203 - 1200 BC

Amenmesse or Amenmose was the son of Merneptah and Queen Takhat.

It is likely that he was not Merneptah's intended heir. Some scholars such as Kenneth Kitchen and Jürgen von Beckerath believe that Amenmesse usurped the throne from Seti-Merneptah, Merneptah's son and crown prince who should have been next in line to the royal succession.

The story of the "Tale of Two Brothers", may contain a veiled reference to the struggle between Amenmesse and Seti II.

The records of a court case early in the reign of Seti II also throw some light on the matter. Papyrus Salt 124 records that Neferhotep, one of the two chief workmen of the Deir el-Medina necropolis, had been killed during the reign of Amenmesse (the king's name is written as 'Msy' in the document). Neferhotep was replaced by Paneb his adopted son, against whom many crimes were alleged by Neferhotep's brother Amennakhte in a strongly worded indictment preserved on a papyrus in the British Museum. If Amennakhte's allegations can be trusted, Paneb had stolen stone for the embellishment of his own tomb from that of Seti II in the course of its completion, besides purloining or damaging other property belonging to that monarch. Also he had allegedly tried to kill Neferhotep in spite of having been educated by him, and after the chief workman had been killed by 'the enemy' had bribed the vizier Pra'emhab in order to usurp his place. Whatever the truth of these accusations, it is clear that Thebes was going through very troubled times. There are references elsewhere to a 'war' that had occurred during these years, but it is obscure to what this word alludes--perhaps to no more than internal disturbances and discontent. Neferhotep had complained of the attacks upon himself to the vizier Amenmose, presumably a predecessor of Pra'emhab, whereupon Amenmose had Paneb punished. Paneb, however, then successfully brought a complaint before 'Mose'/'Msy' whereupon the latter decided to dismiss Amenmose from office. Evidently this 'Mose'/'Msy' was a person of the highest importance here who most probably should be identified with king Amenmesse himself.

Jednog dana, kad je Mojsije već odrastao, dođe među svoj narod i vidje njegove muke. Spazi tada kako neki Egipćanin tuče jednoga Hebrejca - brata njegova. Okrene se tamo-amo i, vidjevši da nikoga nema, ubije Egipćanina i zatrpa ga u pijesak. Izađe on i sutradan te zateče dva Hebrejca kako se tuku. "Zašto tučeš svoga druga?" - rekne napadaču. Ovaj odvrati: "Tko te postavi za starješinu i suca našega? Kaniš li ubiti i mene kako si ubio onog Egipćanina?" Mojsije se uplaši pa će u sebi: "Tako! Ipak se saznalo." Kad je faraon to dočuo, htjede Mojsija pogubiti. Zato Mojsije pobjegne od faraona i skloni se u midjansku zemlju. - Izlazak

Tomb KV10, located in the Valley of the Kings near the modern-day Egyptian city of Luxor, was cut and decorated for the burial of Pharaoh Amenmesse of the Nineteenth Dynasty of Ancient Egypt. However, there is no proof that he was actually buried here.
However, almost all of its texts and scenes were either erased or usurped by Seti II's agents. No mention of Amenmesse was spared. A number of officials associated with Amenmesse were also attacked or replaced, chief among them being the Theban High Priest of Amun, Roma called Roy, and Kha-em-ter, a former viceroy of Kush, who may have supported Amenmesse's usurpation.

Takhat was an ancient Egyptian princess and queen of the 19th dynasty, the mother of the Twosret and the usurper pharaoh Amenmesse.
There are not many facts known about her other than that she was Amenmesse's mother. She bore the titles King's Daughter and King's Wife. She might have been identical with Takhat, a daughter of Ramesses II.

Takhat je kćer Ramzesa II, supruga Merenptah, majka Amenmesse i Twosret, dok je majka Setija II bila Isetnofret II.

Seti II, 1203 - 1197 BC

Seti II had to deal with many serious plots, most significantly the accession of a rival king named Amenmesse, possibly a half brother, who seized control over Thebes and Nubia in Upper Egypt during his second to fourth regnal years.

Evidence that Amenmesse was a direct contemporary with Seti II's rule-rather than Seti II's immediate predecessor -includes the fact that Seti II's royal KV15 tomb at Thebes was deliberately vandalised with many of Seti's royal names being carefully erased here during his reign. The erasures were subsequently repaired by Seti II's agents. This suggests that Seti II's reign at Thebes was interrupted by the rise of a rival: king Amenmesse in Upper Egypt.

The chief foreman of Deir el-Medina, a certain Neferhotep, was killed in the reign of king Amenmesse on the orders of a certain 'Msy' who was either Amenmesse himself or one of this king's agents, according to Papyrus Salt 124. However, Neferhotep is attested in office in the work register list of Ostraca MMA 14.6.217, which also recorded Seti II's accession to the throne and was later reused to register workers' absences under this king's reign. If Seti II's 6-year reign followed that of the usurper Amenmesse, then this chief foreman would not have been mentioned in a document which dated to the start of Seti II's reign since Neferhotep was already dead. This indicates that the reigns of Amenmesse and Seti II must have partly overlapped with one another and suggests that both rulers were rivals who were fighting each another for the throne of Egypt.

Seti II promoted Chancellor Bay to become his most important state official and built 3 tombs - KV13, KV14, and KV15 - for himself, his Senior Queen Twosret and Bay in the Valley of the Kings. This was an unprecedented act on his part for Bay, who was of Syrian descent and was not connected by marriage or blood ties to the royal family.

Isetnofret (or Isis-nofret or Isitnofret) "the beautiful Isis" was one of the Great Royal Wives of Pharaoh Ramesses II and was the mother of his heir, Merneptah. She was one of the most prominent of the royal wives, along with Nefertari, and was the chief queen after Nefertari's death (around the 24th year of the pharaoh's reign).

The parents of Isetnofret are not known. She must have married Ramesses II even before he came to the throne as her eldest children already appear in scenes from the time of Seti I. She had at least three sons and two daughters. Her children include:

  • Prince Ramesses, Crown Prince from Year 25 to 50 of Ramesses II
  • Princess-Queen Bintanath, firstborn daughter and later wife of Ramesses
  • Prince Khaemwaset, High Priest of Ptah. Crown Prince from Year 50 to 55 of Ramesses II
  • Pharaoh Merneptah, Ramesses' 13th son and ultimate successor (he outlived the first 12 princes)
  • Princess Isetnofret, wife of Merenptah as Isetnofret II

Bintanath was likely born during the reign of her grandfather Seti I. Her mother was Isetnofret, one of the two most prominent wives of Ramesses II. It is interesting to note that her name is Semitic, meaning Daughter of Anath, referring to the Canaanite goddess Anath. She had at least three brothers, Ramesses, Khaemwaset and Merneptah and a sister who was named Isetnofret after their mother.

Isetnofret II was one of the Great Royal Wives of Pharaoh Merenptah.

Her children include:

  • Prince Sety-Merenptah, who would later take the throne as Seti I


Amenmesse - The Biblical Moses

There was no "real" Exodus as portrayed in the BIble, that is fiction, but historical "kernels", attested by archaeology might give a clue to some events, which were later transformed into the Exodus story.

The miracles and plagues described in the Bible can not be interpreted literally, but we can only conclude one thing: an Exodus might have occured during a decline of central authority and economical conditions, seeking a better life elsewhere.

Any dating before the New Kingdom is discredited due to the fact that the bible mentions elements and locations not present before, such as chariots, citty of Ramses, oxen and Asiatic slaves (the Hyksos were rulers not slaves).

Thus the late 19th Dynasty and the collapse of the bronze age might be correct timing for the Exodus story, if it ever happened in the first place.

The only recorded internal turmoil during the New Kingdom involving Asiatics occurs at the end of the 19th Dynasty, a possible leader for such a turmoil is Amenmesse.

Amenmesse might be (Amen Moses) the son of Takhat and Merenptah. A member of the Egyptian royal family who was later transformed into a Hebrew by the Jewish people in explanation of his position as their deliverer from slavery and founder of their religion.

In the biblical account Moses father was Amram, apparently a corruption of Amun Ra, the putative father of all of the kings of Egypt, and in this case the Nomen of the king "Amenmesse: Born to Amun"

Manetho account about chosing of his nickname: He also communicated that his desire to his namesake Amenophis (son of Amun), and one that seemed to partake of a divine nature, both as to wisdom and the knowledge of futurities, for this namesake of his told him that he might see the gods.

His birth was apparently transformed into a religious ceremony, similar to the later ritual of baptism, in which the son of Amun Ra was discovered in the Nile and taken into the royal house, to explain that a child of a terrestrial woman could none the less also be the son of God.

Manetho account says: King Amenophis (Amenmesse or Moses) was desirous to become a spectator of the gods, as had Orus (Akhenaten) one of his predecessors in that kingdom, desired the same before him.

After the death of Merenptah's both Amenmesse and Seti 2 claimed the throne, Seti 2 seems controlling Upper (south) Egypt and Amenmesse controlling Lower (north) Egypt.

Seti 2 was initially ousted from power in Upper Egypt and forced to flee with his son Siptah to the king of Ethiopia. Amenmesse (Amen Moses) reigned over Egypt while Seti 2 was exiled.

Seti 2 had previously started construction of his tomb at Thebes, but Amenmesse ordered the desecration of his unfinished tomb KV 13.

During his control of Upper Egypt Amenmesse commissioned the construction of a chapel at Deir el-Medina, and quartzite statues in the Hypostyle Hall at Karnak Exodus 2: The killing of the Egyptian overseer by Amenmesse (Moses).

Papyrus Salt 124 in the British Museum records the following story

"Neferhotep was one of the two chief workmen of the Deir el-Medina necropolis, was attacked by Paneb a slave.

Neferhotep then complained of the attacks upon himself to the vizier who ordered a severe punishment for the slave Paneb.

Paneb, however, then successfully brought a complaint before Amenmesse (the king's name is written as 'Mose'/'Msy' in the document), whereupon the latter decided to dismiss the vizier from office and ordered the killing of Neferhotep.

Certainly it wa very strange that a Pharaoh will order the killing of an Egyptian overseer and dismiss a vizier, while protecting a slave!!, the Bible possibly recorded this same story in a slightly different version in Exodus 2:

2:11 And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out to his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.

2:12 And he looked this way and that way, and when he saw that there was no man, he slew the Egyptian, and hid him in the sand.

2:13 And when he went out the second day, behold, two men of the Hebrews strove together: and he said to him that did the wrong, Wherefore smitest you your fellow?

2:14 And he said, Who made you a prince and a judge over us? intendest you to kill me, as you killedst the Egyptian? And Moses feared, and said, Surely this thing is known.

The bible account states the fact that Moses was a prince and member in the Egyptian royal family. However why should a prince in ancient Egypt flee the country for killing an ordinary man?.sure his escape has nothing to do with this incident,

But his escape is more likely rather a result of a power struggle for the throne, while this unimportant killing event was used for polishing Amenmesse's pulic image amongst the Asiatics.

Seti 2 began to re-conquer Egypt, and returned to Thebes in triumph and ordered the restoration of his own damaged tomb KV13.

Amenmesse had began the construction of his own tomb in KV10 in the Valley of Kings, Seti 2 revenged over Amenmesse by completely destroying the tomb erasing al references to his name.

Seti 2 then completes his return to Lower (north) Egypt and expels Amenmesse (Moses), how is forced to flee to Midian (Timna in the Eastern borders of Sinai).

After the death of Seti 2 there was a period of chaos, his First born child Siptah suffered from polio "The 10th Plague" and died.

Amenmesse tried to persuade Chancellor Bay into reinstalling his authority, but the plan fails and Bay is recorded to have been executed for being "A traitor".

Setnakhte comes to power after the short reign of Tawosret. It was revealed in the Bible thatduring Moses' absence, the Pharaoh of the Oppression (Seti 2) had died, and been replaced by the Pharaoh of the Exodus (Setnakhte).

He decided to march to Egypt gathering with him Asiatics slaves working in copper mines, persuading them that they will gain their freedom in his new kingdom and no longer work as slaves.

Manetho records this event: "But when these men were gotten into Typhos city, and found the place fit for a revolt ....and they took their oaths that they would be obedient to him(their ruler) in all things. He then, in the first place, made this law for them, that they should neither worship the Egyptian gods, nor should abstain from any one of those sacred animals which they have in the highest esteem, but kill and destroy them all; that they should join themselves to nobody but to those that were of this confederacy.

He leads Asiatics into Egypt in an attempt to re-conquer his lost throne and moves west to the Delta fermenting chaos, the Papyrus Harris says about this period"The land of Egypt was in the hands of chiefs and of rulers of towns; one slew his neighbour, great and small. Other times having come after it, with empty years, Irsu (Moses) was with them as chief . He set plundering the people's possessions. They made gods like men, and no offerings were presented in the temples."

This plundering is also recorded in the bible Exodus 3: 3:22 But every woman shall borrow of her neighbor, and of her that sojourneth in her house, jewels of silver, and jewels of gold, and raiment: and you shall put them upon your sons, and upon your daughters; and you shall spoil the Egyptians.

Exodus 12:36 states: And the LORD gave the people favour in the sight of the Egyptians, so that they lent to them such things as they required. And they spoiled the Egyptians.

This clearly alleges a conspiracy by Amenmesse (Moses) to bribe Egyptian authorities to take over the throne of Egypt with Asiatic help, why should Moses bribe Egyptians and corrupt him if he intends to flee anyway?

Who can he aspire to take the throne is he wasn't a member of the royal family and a former prince from the begining?

Finally Setnakhte the Pharaoh of the Exodus, sets a campaign to expel Amenmesse and his followers from the Delta region, chasing them into Sinai , but was unsuccessful in destroying them beyond the Red Sea.

Amenmesse / Takhat


Argive genealogy in Greek mythology

Danaus & Aegyptus

In Greek mythology Danaus (/ˈdæn.eɪ.əs/; Ancient Greek: Δαναός Danaos), was the twin brother of Aegyptus, a mythical king of Egypt. The myth of Danaus is a foundation legend of Argos, one of the foremost Mycenaean cities of the Peloponnesus. In Homer's Iliad, "Danaans" ("tribe of Danaus") and "Argives" commonly designate the Greek forces opposed to the Trojans.
Inachus Melia
Zeus Io Phoroneus
Epaphus Memphis
Libya Poseidon
Belus Achiroë Agenor Telephassa
Danaus Pieria Aegyptus Cadmus Cilix Europa Phoenix
Mantineus Hypermnestra Lynceus Harmonia Zeus
Sparta Lacedaemon Ocalea Abas Agave Sarpedon Rhadamanthus
Eurydice Acrisius Ino Minos
Zeus Danaë Semele Zeus
Perseus Dionysus
Colour key:




Danaus (/ˈdæn.eɪ.əs/; Ancient Greek: Δαναός Danaos), was the king of Libya. He was the twin brother of Aegyptus, a mythical king of Egypt. The myth of Danaus is a foundation legend of Argos, one of the foremost Mycenaean cities of the Peloponnesus. In Homer's Iliad, "Danaans" ("tribe of Danaus") and "Argives" commonly designate the Greek forces opposed to the Trojans.

Pliny the Elder - He Danaus may have introduced wells into Greece, but they had, long before his time, been employed in Egypt and in other countries. The term "Dipsion," "thirsting," which it appears had been applied to the district of Argos, may seem to render it probable, that, before the arrival of Danaus, the inhabitants had not adopted any artificial means of supplying themselves with water. But this country, we are told, is naturally well supplied with water. - Danaus

Danaus = Seti II


Aegyptus, King of Egypt and Arabia

Aegyptus (Ancient Greek: Αἴγυπτος, Aígyptos) is a descendant of the heifer maiden, Io, and the river-god Nilus, and was a king in Egypt and Arabia.

Aegyptos was the son of Belus and Achiroe, a naiad daughter of Nile. He ruled Arabia and conquered nearby country ruled by people called Melampodes and called it by his name. Aegyptus fathered fifty sons, who were all but one murdered by forty nine of the fifty daughters of Aegyptus' twin brother, Danaus, eponym of the Danaids.

Aegyptus = Amenmesse


Murdered bridegrooms

After Aegyptus commanded that his fifty sons should marry the Danaides, Danaus elected to flee instead, and to that purpose, he built a ship, the first ship that ever was. In it, he fled to Argos, to which he was connected by his descent from Io, a priestess of Hera at Argos, who was wooed by Zeus and turned into a heifer and pursued by Hera until she found asylum in Egypt.

When Aegyptus and his fifty sons arrived to take the Danaides, Danaus gave them, to spare the Argives the pain of a battle. However, he instructed his daughters to kill their husbands on their wedding night.

Forty-nine followed through, and subsequently buried the heads of their bridegrooms in Lerna; but one, Hypermnestra, refused because her husband, Lynceus, honored her wish to remain a virgin. Danaus was angry with his disobedient daughter and threw her to the Argive courts. Aphrodite intervened and saved her. Lynceus and Hypermnestra then began a dynasty of Argive kings (the Danaid Dynasty).

The Danaides were punished in Tartarus by being forced to carry water in a jug to fill a bath without bottom (or with a leak) and thereby wash off their sins, but the bath was never filled because the water was always leaking out.

Egipatski se kralj obrati i na hebrejske babice, od kojih jednoj bijaše ime Šifra, a drugoj Pua, pa im naredi: (16) "Kad u porodu pomažete Hebrejkama, dobro pogledajte oba kamena sjedala: ako je muško dijete, ubijte ga; - Izlazak

Sons of Cronus

In the Sibylline Oracles, particularly in book three, Cronus, 'Titan' and Iapetus, the three sons of Uranus and Gaia, each to receive a third division of the Earth, and Cronus is made king over all. After the death of Uranus, Titan's sons attempt to destroy Cronus's and Rhea's male offspring as soon as they are born, but at Dodona, Rhea secretly bears her sons Zeus, Poseidon and Hades and sends them to Phrygia to be raised in the care of three Cretans. Upon learning this, sixty of Titan's men then imprison Cronus and Rhea, causing the sons of Cronus to declare and fight the first of all wars against them.


Resurrected Bata - Tale of Two Brothers

The story centers around two brothers: Anpu (Anubis), who is married, and the younger Bata. The brothers work together, farming land and raising cattle. One day, Anpu's wife attempts to seduce Bata. When he strongly rejects her advances, the wife tells her husband that his brother attempted to seduce her and beat her when she refused. In response to this, Anpu attempts to kill Bata, who flees and prays to Re-Harakhti to save him. The god creates a crocodile-infested lake between the two brothers, across which Bata is finally able to appeal to his brother and share his side of the events. To emphasize his sincerity, Bata severs his genitalia and throws them into the water, where a catfish eats them.

Bata states that he is going to the Valley of the Cedar, where he will place his heart on the top of the blossom of a cedar tree, so that if it is cut down Anpu will be able to find it and allow Bata to become alive again. Bata tells Anpu that if he is ever given a jar of beer that froths, he should know to seek out his brother. After hearing of his brother's plan, Anpu returns home and kills his wife. Meanwhile, Bata is establishing a life in the Valley of the Cedar, building a new home for himself. Bata comes upon the Ennead, or the principal Egyptian deities, who take pity on him. Khnum, the god frequently depicted in Egyptian mythology as having fashioned humans on a potters' wheel, creates a wife for Bata. Because of her divine creation, Bata's wife is sought after by the pharaoh. When the pharoh succeeds in bringing her to live with him, she tells him to cut down the tree in which Bata has put his heart. They do so, and Bata dies.

Anpu then receives a frothy jar of beer and sets off to the Valley of the Cedar. He searches for his brother's heart for more than three years, finding it at the beginning of the fourth year. He follows Bata's instructions and puts the heart in a bowl of cold water. As predicted, Bata is resurrected.

Bata then takes the form of a bull and goes to see his wife and the pharaoh. His wife, aware of his presence as a bull, asks the pharaoh if she may eat its liver. The bull is then sacrificed, and two drops of Bata's blood fall, from which grow two Persea trees. Bata, now in the form of a tree, again addresses his wife, and she appeals to the pharaoh to cut down the Persea trees and use them to make furniture. As this is happening, a splinter ends up in the wife's mouth, impregnating her. She eventually gives birth to a son, whom the pharaoh ultimately makes crown prince. When the pharaoh dies, the crown prince (a resurrected Bata) becomes king, and he appoints his elder brother Anpu as crown prince. The story ends happily, with the brothers at peace with one another and in control of their country.

The story might have had its origins in the succession dispute following Merneptah's reign at the beginning of the 13th century BC. When Merneptah died, Seti II was undoubtedly the rightful heir to the throne, but he was challenged by Amenmesse, who ruled for at least a few years in Upper Egypt, although Seti II ultimately ruled for six full years.

P. D'Orbiney (P. Brit. Mus. 10183); it is claimed that the papyrus was written towards the end of the 19th dynasty by the scribe Ennana. It was acquired by the British Museum in 1857. - Tale of Two Brothers

We suggest;

Aegyptus (Mose-Amenmesse) = Resurrected Bata (Tale of Two Brothers)
Io = bull (Tale of Two Brothers)
Nilus = Khnum (god of the source of the Nile River)

Kad je dijete odraslo, ona ga odvede faraonovoj kćeri, koja ga posini. Nadjene mu ime Mojsije, "jer sam ga", reče, "iz vode izvadila". - Izlazak

Voda = Nile river, river-god Nilus, Khnum

Bila mama Kukunka

Io Io - Aegyptus Bila mama Kukunka

Bila mama Kukunka, Kukunka
bio tata Taranta, Taranta
imali su maloga Juju.

Jednom su se šetali, šetali
kraj duboke rijeke Nil, rijeke Nil
gdje je bio velik krokodil.

Skočio je krokodil, krokodil,
iz duboke rijeke Nil, rijeke Nil,
uhvatio maloga Juju.

Plače mama Kukunka, Kukunka
plače tata Taranta, Taranta
vrati nama našega Juju

Progovara krokodil, krokodil
iz duboke rijeke Nil, rijeke Nil
dones’te mi vola pečenog.

Trči mama Kukunka, Kukunka
trči tata Taranta, Taranta
donijeli su vola pečenog.

Progovara krokodil, krokodil,
iz duboke rijeke Nil, rijeke Nil
evo vama vašega Juju!


Siptah - Twosret - Chancellor Bay

Siptah - Twosret - Chancellor Bay

Siptah, 1197 - 1191 BC

Siptah or Merenptah Siptah was the penultimate ruler of the Nineteenth Dynasty of Egypt. His father's identity is currently unknown. Both Seti II and Amenmesse have been suggested although the fact that Siptah later changed his royal name or nomen to Merneptah Siptah after his Year 2 suggests rather that his father was Merneptah. If correct, this would make Siptah and Seti II half-brothers since both of them were sons of Merneptah.

The identity of his father is currently unknown; some Egyptologists speculate it may have been Amenmesse rather than Seti II since both Siptah and Amenmesse spent their youth in Chemmis and both are specifically excluded from Ramesses III's Medinet Habu procession of statues of ancestral kings unlike Merneptah or Seti. This suggests that Amenmesse and Siptah were inter-related in such a way that they were "regarded as illegitimate rulers and that therefore they were probably father and son."

He was not the crown prince, but succeeded to the throne as a child after the death of Seti II. His accession date occurred on I Peret day 2 around the month of December.

Siptah ruled Egypt for almost 6 years as a young man. Siptah was only a child of ten or eleven years when he assumed power since a medical examination of his mummy reveals the king was about 16 years old at death. He was tall at 1.6 metres and had curly reddish brown hair and likely suffered from polio with a severely deformed and crippled left foot.

The mummy had a thick crop of red-brown curly hair.


The word Busiris was used to refer to chief god of Busiris, an attribute of Osiris.

  • In Diodorus Siculus, Busiris appears as the founder of the line of kings at Thebes.
  • The villainous king of Egypt named Busiris, a son of Poseidon and Libya, was the ancient founder of Egyptian civilization.
  • Apollodorus Bibliotheke are at II.1.5 and II.5.11: Busiris there is one of the fifty sons of Aegyptus, betrothed to a Danaid.

    Busiris, an Egyptian prince as one of the Sons of Aegyptus. He suffered the same fate as his other brothers, save Lynceus, when they were slain on their wedding night by their wives who obeyed the command of their father Danaus. Busiris was the son of Aegyptus by Argyphia, a woman of royal blood and thus full brother of Lynceus, Proteus, Enceladus, Lycus and Daiphron. He married the Danaid Automate.

  • Plutarch says that his mother is Anippe, daughter of the river-god Nilus. The monstrous Busiris sacrificed all visitors to his gods. Heracles defied him, broke his shackles at the last minute and killed Busiris.
  • Niall Livingstone: Heracles being led to sacrifice; his escape; the killing of Busiris; the rout of his entourage.

In Paradise Lost, John Milton uses "Busiris" as the name of the Pharaoh of the Exodus, which suggests a comparison between Heracles' escape and the Israelites' escape from slavery.

We suggest;



Death of the Firstborn Egyptians - Nina Paley

U ponoći Jahve pobije sve prvorođence po zemlji egipatskoj: od prvorođenca faraonova, koji je imao sjediti na prijestolju, do prvorođenca sužnja u tamnici, a tako i sve prvine od stoke. - Izlazak


Twosret, 1191 - 1189 BC

Twosret (Tawosret, Tausret, d. 1189 BC conventional chronology) was the last known ruler and the final Pharaoh of the Nineteenth Dynasty of Egypt. She is recorded in Manetho's Epitome as a certain Thuoris, who in Homer is called Polybus, husband of Alcandra, and in whose time Troy was taken. She was said to have ruled Egypt for seven years, but this figure included the nearly six-year reign of Siptah, her predecessor. Twosret simply assumed Siptah's regnal years as her own. While her sole independent reign would have lasted for perhaps one to one-and a half full years from 1191 to 1189 BC, this number now appears more likely to be two full years instead, possibly longer.

Twosret would rule as regent for Siptah and later as Pharaoh.


Queen Twosret is thought to have been a daughter of Merenptah, possibly a daughter of Takhat, thereby making her sister to Amenmesse. She was thought to be the second royal wife of Seti II.

After her husband's death, she became first regent to Seti's heir Siptah jointly with Chancellor Bay, whom some have identified as the Irsu mentioned in the Harris Papyrus. Siptah was likely a stepson of Twosret since his mother is now known to be a certain Sutailja or Shoteraja from Louvre Relief E 26901. When Siptah died, Twosret officially assumed the throne for herself, as the "Daughter of Re, Lady of Ta-merit, Twosret of Mut", and assumed the role of a Pharaoh.

Twosret's reign ended in a civil war which is documented in the Elephantine stela of her successor Setnakhte who became the founder of the Twentieth dynasty. It is not known if she was overthrown by Setnakhte or whether she died peacefully in her own reign; if the latter is the case, then a struggle may have ensued among various factions at court for the throne in which Setnakhte emerged victorious. However, Setnakhte and his son Ramesses III described the late 19th dynasty as a time of chaos. Setnakhte usurped the joint KV14 tomb of Seti II and Twosret but reburied Seti II in tomb KV15, while deliberately replastering and redrawing all images of Twosret in tomb KV14 with those of himself. Setnakhte's decisions here may demonstrate his dislike and presumably hatred for Twosret since he chose to reinter Seti II but not Twosret.

Twosret and Siptah's names have been found associated with the turquoise mines at Serabit el Khadim and Timna

Chancellor Bay

Bay, also called Ramesse Khamenteru, (died 1192 BC) was an important Asiatic official in ancient Egypt, who rose to prominence and high office under Seti II Userkheperure Setepenre and later became an influential powerbroker in the closing stages of the 19th Dynasty.

Bay is called a Syrian (Hurru = Hurrian or Harran-born) Asiatic. While his precise background is unknown except for his Syrian origins, Bay is first attested as scribe and butler, an important position in Egypt, during the reign of Seti II. However, Bay probably entered Egypt's civil administration earlier under a previous pharaoh–either Merneptah, Seti II's father, or Ramesses II.

Indeed, Bay's first official position may have been that of a priest in the temple at Heliopolis, where a small statue of him has been found. By the time of the death of Seti II, Bay had risen to the post of Chancellor and played the role of "kingmaker." Bay's status at Siptah's court was so great that on several of the young king's monuments, "the chancellor is shown in scenes with the pharaoh on the same scale as the latter, the earliest occasion in which a commoner was depicted in such a manner." Furthermore, Bay explicitly claims, in several inscriptions with reference to Siptah, that it was he who established the king "on the throne of his father" without providing further details on how this came about. Bay was also included in the cult of the mortuary temple of Siptah in Year 3 of the latter's reign. During the same period the tomb of Queen Twosret, KV14 was also started, and built as part of a threesome with those of Siptah and Bay. The tombs of Bay and Twosret (2nd building phase) are smaller copies of the royal tomb.

Images of Bay exist showing him standing behind the throne of Pharaoh Siptah, an unusual position for a commoner, and also opposite Twosret on the doorjamb of the Amada temple where he faces the queen. Tablets unearthed by excavators at Ras Shamra prove Ugarit was communicating with Bay of Egypt (RS 86.2230), who described himself the "head of the bodyguard of the Great King, the King of Egypt".

Like Siptah's and Twosret's, Bay's name was later removed from the tomb, probably by the new Pharaohs of the 20th Dynasty, who did not recognise his legitimacy, nor that of any of the late 19th Dynasty monarchs who ruled after Seti II, including Siptah and Amenmesse. If tradition is to be believed, Bay enjoyed an evil reputation: he reportedly seduced Twosret, who then gave him full control over Egypt's treasury. Some even speculate that during this period Bay and Twosret were lovers. But this speculation is unlikely, since Bay died in Siptah's Year 5, at least two years before Twosret assumed the throne.

According to the information in Ostraca IFAO 1864, which is composed of two inscribed potsherd fragments that were reunited in February 2000, Bay was executed on or shortly before Year 5, III Shemu day 27 of Siptah, on the king's orders. The recto of the ostracon is essentially a public announcement to the workmen of Deir el-Medina and reads thus:

Year 5 III Shemu the 27th. On this day, the scribe of the tomb Paser came announcing 'Pharaoh LPH, has killed the great enemy Bay. (sm3 Pr-‘3 ‘.w.s. khrw ‘3 B3y)'

Bay, hence, was not buried in the dignified style which he sought and instead met a traitor's fate. After his fall, his tomb was subsequently usurped in the 20th Dynasty for prince Mentuherkhepshef, a son of Rameses IX.

Papyrus Harris I portrays his tenure in office as a time when Egypt was in chaos and temple offerings were denied to the gods. After the death of Twosret, Egypt seems to have fallen into anarchy, with many temples being looted by Asiatic followers of Bay.

Twosret's successor Setnakhte's Elephantine stele records how he expelled these Asiatic rebels who, on their flight from Egypt, abandoned much of the gold, silver and copper which they had stolen from Egypt, and with which they had intended to hire reinforcements among the Asiatics. His pacification of Egypt is also referred to in the Great Harris Papyrus.


Proteus - Twosret


Proteus was an ancient Egyptian king who was associated with the island of Pharos, his residence in Homer's Odyssey. The name of Pharos may be a Greek adaptation of the title Pharaoh. Proteus also seems to have been associated with Thrace, and legends portray him as coming from Thrace to Egypt, or as going from Egypt to Thrace. There's also some sort of association of Proteus with the island of Lemnos, close to Thrace.

Herodotus invoked Proteus in his telling of the story of Helen of Troy. In Book II of The History, the story is told of how Proteus rose to the throne of Egypt out of Memphis, succeeding Pheron as king. He was later succeeded by Rhampsinitus (Ramesses III). When Paris stole Helen from Sparta, winds blew him off his intended course and he found himself in Egypt. Upon their arrival, Paris and his servants discovered a temple, in which the slaves realized it would be profitable for them to take refuge. Thus, they deserted Paris, informing the authorities of his numerous wrongdoings. Word of Paris' crimes reached Proteus, who then requested Paris be brought forth for inquiry. Proteus asked Paris for the details of his journey, ultimately concluding that despite his anger and Paris' terrible actions, he cannot kill a man who is a stranger from another land. Instead of death as Paris' punishment, Proteus took Helen from Paris and seized the treasure stolen from Menelaus, intending to return both Helen and the treasure to Menelaus, to whom they were rightfully due. Proteus then urged Paris to leave Egypt.

Herodotus also makes references to Homer's Iliad and Odyssey, claiming Homer must have been aware of this version of events despite using the more common story.

We suggest;

Proteus = Twosret,  (P)ro-Teus = Rot-Teus (Rot = Ret, Teus = Twos) = Twos-ret


Faraon - Perun - Pharos


“The Egyptian title PHRA = PHARAOH, is simply the word RA with the article P or PH prefixed signfying THE SUN. “

“PHARAOH (Φαραώ)…In inscriptions of the Old Kingdom an expression Pr-‘o, ‘great house,’… In old Coptic (of the 2nd cent. AD) the descendent of the Pr-‘o is simply ΠEPO, ‘the king,’…”

Egipatsko PHRA (grčki: Φαραώ) = RA = SUNCE

Sanskritsko PERU = VATRA, SUNCE

Slika stećka preuzeta iz knjige "Stećci, laž i bogumili", str. 219.


Pharos of Alexandria

A drawing of the Pharos of Alexandria by German archaeologist Prof. H. Thiersch (1909).

Pharos of Alexandria was a lighthouse built by the Ptolemaic Kingdom, during the reign of Ptolemy II Philadelphus (280–247 BC). which has been estimated to be 100 metres (330 ft) in overall height. One of the Seven Wonders of the Ancient World, for many centuries it was one of the tallest man-made structures in the world.

  • Pharos feral

Lighthouse remains found in the Mediterranean Sea


Kolaps brončanog doba

Novo istraživanje čestica peludi konačno je dalo odgovor na pitanje koje već desetljećima muči arheologe i povjesničare - što je prije 3200 godina uzrokovalo propast ne samo jedne, već brojnih civilizacija koje su cvjetale na istočnim obalama Mediterana.

'Za kratko vrijeme cijeli svijet brončanog doba je propao', rekao je Israel Finkelstein, arheolog iz Arheološkog instituta Sveučilišta u Tel Avivu.

'Carstvo Hetita, faraonski Egipat, mikenska kultura u Grčkoj, kraljevstvo na otoku Cipru, veliki trgovački emporij Ugarita na sirijskim obalama i kanaanski gradovi - države pod egipatskom hegemonijom - svi su nestali da bi ih tek nakon dužeg vremena zamijenila teritorijalna kraljevstva željeznog doba, uključujući Izrael i Juda', dodao je.

Stručnjaci su postavili brojne teorije u kojima su pretpostavili različite moguće uzroke iznenadnog kolapsa - od ratova i bolesti do prirodnih katastrofa.

Međutim, nova izraelska studija fosiliziranog cvjetnog praha pronađenog u sedimentima na dnu Galilejskog mora pokazala je da je glavni krivac bila jaka suša koja je trajala 150 godina od 1250. godine p.n.e. do 1100. p.n.e. Ovako precizni podaci temelje se na uzorcima prikupljenim bušenjem kroz 18 metara sedimenata nakupljenih tijekom posljednjih 9.000 godina.

Zrnca cvjetnog praha su poput otiska prsta biljaka jer se na temelju njih mogu odlično rekonstruirati klimatski uvjeti određenog razdoblja.
Autori istraživanja su u sedimentima zabilježili nagli pad gustoće hrastova, borova i rogača - uobičajenog drveća na Mediteranu u vrijeme kasnog brončanog doba, te istovremeni porast bilja karakterističnog za sušne pustinjske krajeve. U isto vrijeme drastično su se prorijedile i masline što ukazuje na slabljenje poljoprivrede. Svi ovi znakovi potvrđuju da su cijelom regijom zavladale velike i trajne suše koje su uzrokovale glad, sukobe i seobe.


Ipuwer Papyrus - the river is blood

Ipuwer Papyrus

The Ipuwer Papyrus has been dated no earlier than the Nineteenth Dynasty.

Ipuwer Papirus datira iz kasnijeg 13. stoljeća prije Krista a opisuje Egipat koji je pogođen prirodnim katastrofama i u stanju je kaosa, društveni sustav je postao neorganiziran, nasilje je napunilo zemlju, siromašni postaju bogati a bogati siromašni, ratovanja, glad i smrt su posvuda. Jedan od simptoma ovog kolapsa je žaljenje da su sluge napustile svoje služanjstvo i djeluju buntovnički.

Papirus 2: 5-6 Kuga je u cijeloj zemlji. Krv je posvuda. 2:10 Rijeka je krv.
Izlazak 7:21 Egipćani nisu mogli piti vodu iz Rijeke; krv bijaše po svoj zemlji egipatskoj. 7:20 Sva se voda u Rijeci prometnu u krv.

Papirus 2: 10 Ljudi su prezali od kušanja .. i žedni nakon vode.
Izlazak 7:24 Svi su Egipćani počeli kopati oko Rijeke tražeći pitke vode jer nisu mogli piti vode iz Rijeke.

Papirus 2: 8 Ma nemojte mi reći, zemlja se okreće u krug kao na lončarskom kolu. 2:11 Gradovi su uništeni. 7: 4 Prebivališta su uništena u minuti.
Papirus 2: 10 Ma nemojte mi reći, vrata, stupovi i zidovi nestaju u požaru.
Izlazak 9:23 Jahve zagrmje i pusti tuču i munje sastavi sa zemljom.

Papirus 4:14 Stabla su uništena. 6: 1 Ni voće ni bilje ne mogu se pronaći.
Exodus 9:25 Tuča pobi po svem Egiptu sve što je ostalo vani, ljude i životinje; uništi sve bilje po poljima i sva stabla poljska polomi.

Papirus 4: 3 Ma nemojte mi reći, djeca glavara su iscrtana po zidovima.
Izlazak 12:27 Jahvi koji je prolazio mimo kuće Izraelaca kad je usmrćivao Egipćane,

Papirus 09:11 Zemlja nema svjetla.
Izlazak 10:22 Spusti se gusta tmina na svu zemlju egipatsku:

Zlato, lapis, srebrno ... su nanizani na vratove slugu.

Ovako Jahve poručuje: Ovim ćeš spoznati da sam ja Jahve. Gledaj! Štapom koji imam u ruci mlatnut ću po vodi u Rijeci i pretvorit će se u krv. Ribe će u Rijeci pocrkati; Rijeka će se usmrdjeti, i grstit će se Egipćanima piti vodu iz Rijeke. - Izlazak


Late Bronze Age collapse

The numerous hoards of the Urnfield culture and the existence of fortified settlements (hill forts) were taken as evidence for widespread warfare and upheaval by some scholars. Written sources describe several collapses and upheavals in the Eastern Mediterranean, Anatolia and the Levant around the time of the Urnfield origins:

  • End of the Mycenean culture with a conventional date of c. 1200 BC
  • Destruction of Troy VI c. 1190 BC
  • Battles of Ramses III against the Sea Peoples, 1181–1174 BC
  • End of the Hittite empire 1180 BC
  • Settlement of the Philistines in Canaan c. 1170 BC

Some scholars, among them Wolfgang Kimmig and P. Bosch-Gimpera have postulated a Europe-wide wave of migrations. The so-called Dorian invasion of Greece was placed in this context as well (although more recent evidence suggests that the Dorians moved in 1100 BC into a post Mycenaean vacuum, rather than precipitating the collapse). Better methods of dating have shown that these events are not as closely connected as once thought.

More recently Robert Drews, after having reviewed and dismissed the migration hypothesis, has suggested that the observed cultural associations may be in fact partly explained as the result of a new kind of warfare based upon the slashing Naue II sword, and with bands of infantry replacing chariots in warfare. Drews suggests that the political instability that this brought to centralised states based upon maryannu chariotry caused the breakdown of these polities. Late Bronze Age collapse

Trojan War, c. 1194 - 1184 BC

Trojan War took place at around 1190 BC, and the invasion of the Sea Peoples took place at just around that time.

Those who believe that the stories of the Trojan War are derived from a specific historical conflict usually date it to the 12th or 11th centuries BC, often preferring the dates given by Eratosthenes, 1194 - 1184 BC

Various collective terms for the inhabitants of Mycenaean Greece were used by Homer in his 8th century BC epic, the Iliad, in reference to the Trojan War. The latter was supposed to have happened in the late 13th – early 12th century BC, when a coalition of small Greek states under the king of Mycenae, besieged the walled city of Troy. Homer used the ethnonyms Achaeans, Danaans and Argives, to refer to the besiegers. These names appear to have passed down from the time they were in use to the time when Homer applied them as collective terms in his Iliad.

Huge horse on a cetula from Konossos dated around 1200 BC


Wilusa = Troy?

In the legend Helen is married to Menelaus, the king of Sparta. But she is seduced by a Trojan prince, Paris, and taken away to the city of Troy.

Menelaus appeals to his brother, Agamemnon. In the myth he is a mighty king, able to assemble a coalition of Greeks from the mainland and the islands. They set sail for Troy in a fleet of a thousand ships.

The siege of Troy lasts 10 years. Agamemnon's army is unable to break the city's great walls, so they resort to trickery. The Greeks leave a wooden horse outside the city gates and the Trojans drag it in. Greek warriors jump out and open the gates for their army. Troy is then razed.

Following clues from the pages of Homer, Schliemann believed he'd located the site of Troy on what is now the Turkish coast, close to the Dardanelles, the waterway that separates Europe from Asia. In 1870 he began to excavate.

Over four seasons he cut his way down through an ancient mound, shifting hundreds of tons of rubble. At the bottom of the mound he uncovered the walls of a fortress. Soon afterwards he found a collection of golden treasure. He displayed his sensational finds to the world and declared he'd found Homer's Troy.

But Schliemann had been struggling to date his remains, and, as archaeology developed as a science, it became clear that his buildings and treasure were from the early Bronze Age, about 2,500 BC, more than 1,000 years before the traditional date of the legend. His fortress could never have been the scene of a great battle over Helen.

In 1893 an excavation led by Schliemann's former assistant, Wilhelm Dörpfeld, began to uncover a very different Troy. Dörpfeld excavated a citadel with massive walls, with high towers and great gates. This citadel was from the late Bronze Age, a time that fitted the legend.

The city had physical features that seemed to match the myth. For instance, Homer had described how the warrior Patroclus was able to scale the walls of Troy because they were built at an angle. Sections of the defensive walls that Dörpfeld uncovered were indeed sloping. Once again, some archaeologists declared that this was the city of legend.

But Dr Cline points out that there was one important feature of the city that didn't match the myth. Homer's Troy was big enough to withstand a siege that lasted 10 years. The city that archaeology had uncovered just wasn't that big: "It is a small place, it's just a citadel that they had found, and a couple of hundred people up there maybe at the most, and the critics said this is not Troy, Troy must be big, Troy must be huge if Homer was right."

The next excavation, led by Carl Blegen, an American, finished at Troy in 1938. For 50 years the site lay untouched, and the question of whether it really was the city of legend remained unresolved.

In 1988 work at Troy resumed under the leadership of Professor Manfred Korfmann of Tübingen University. He assembled a large, international team, drawing on a wide range of scientific disciplines.

Korfmann said he wasn't interested in the myth. He was drawn to Troy because it had been inhabited for more than 3,000 years and occupied an important strategic position between Asia and Europe.

When Korfmann arrived at Troy he was puzzled to discover that the city's great gateways appeared to have no means of being secured shut. "The gate is open, inviting everyone to come in. We walked up and down a hundred times and wondered how it was closed, how it was blocked. How could they defend themselves?"

He knew that if the gates couldn't be blocked, there must have been some other outer line of defences. His hunch was that there must have been more to Troy than had so far been uncovered.

He began to excavate outside the citadel walls and unearthed substantial buildings from the late Bronze Age, from between 1700 and 1200 bc. These were from the same time as the citadel that Dörpfeld had uncovered. Korfmann wondered if these buildings were the beginning of a lower city, a settlement that spread outside the citadel walls. But the area it might have covered was so vast that it would be impossible to excavate with shovels.

Korfmann asked his colleagues for a magnetic scan of the area: geophysics scans can detect changes in the Earth's magnetic field, revealing buried walls, streets and buildings.

In this case, the scans revealed a grid of wide streets and avenues beneath the fields outside the citadel walls. It was obvious that this belonged to a much later period than the late Bronze Age, to classical Greek and Roman times.

But there was no sign of a city from the late Bronze Age, from the time when the siege is said to have happened. Then Prof Korfmann noticed a faint line on the scan that traced a wavy path around the citadel. It was very different from the regular grid of Greek and Roman streets. It was time to dig.

He uncovered part of a wide ditch cut into the rock and has traced its path for 700 metres. It's from the late Bronze Age, the time of the legend. He believes it was designed to stop enemy chariots, and so marked the outer limit of the lower city.

In the myth, Troy is razed by the army of Agamemnon. The early archaeologists believed the city might have been destroyed between 1200 and 1300 BC either by fighting or by an earthquake. Now, with access to the lost lower city, Prof Korfmann has discovered evidence that it suffered a catastrophe at around 1200 BC.

"There are skeletons. We found for example a girl, I think 16 years old, half buried. The feet were burnt by fire and half of the corpse was buried underground. This is strange, so rapid a burial within a public space within the city."

He also found arrowheads, which suggested close-quarter fighting. But a key clue to the fate of Troy came from collections of slingshots that he discovered. These were an important weapon of the time, used to keep enemy archers at bay. Korfmann believes that finding them in piles is significant. If the defenders had won the battle they would have taken the slingshots to be used elsewhere, for example by shepherds in the fields.

Hence, Korfmann believes, the Trojans must have lost the battle. "It was a city that was besieged. It was a city that defended itself. They lost the war and were obviously defeated."

In this way the archaeological record backs the claim of the legend that Troy was destroyed by an enemy army at the end of the Bronze Age.

And what of the Trojan horse? In the 130 years that archaeologists have been working at Troy, no evidence has been uncovered for its existence.



Wilusa, (URUwi5-lu-ša) or Wilusiya was a city of the late Bronze Age Assuwa confederation of western Anatolia.

It is recorded that all places in Illyria have Ur as prefix!

It is known from six references in 13th century BC Hittite sources, including:
the Manapa-Tarhunta letter (c. 1310–1280 BC); which places it beyond the Seha river;
the Alaksandu treaty (c. 1280 BC), between Alaksandu of Wilusa and Muwatalli II of Hatti;
the Tawagalawa letter (c. 1250 BC), addressed to the king of the Ahhiyawa by Hattusili III, mentioning a military conflict over Wilusa;
the Milawata letter (late 13th century BC), believed to be written by Tudhaliya IV of Hatti, discussing the reinstallation of Walmu as king of Wilusa; - Wilusa



Apaliunas is the name of a god, attested in a Hittite language treaty as a protective deity of Wilusa. Apaliunas is considered to be the Hittite reflex of *Apeljōn, an early form of the name Apollo, which may also be surmised from comparison of Cypriot Ἀπείλων with Doric Ἀπέλλων.

Apaliunas is among the gods who guarantee a treaty drawn up about 1280 BCE between Alaksandu of Wilusa, interpreted as "Alexander of Ilios" and the great Hittite king, Muwatalli II. He is one of the three deities named on the side of the city. In Homer, Apollo is the builder of the walls of Ilium, a god on the Trojan side. A Luwian etymology suggested for Apaliunas makes Apollo "The One of Entrapment", perhaps in the sense of "Hunter".

Further east of the Luwian language area, a Hurrian god Aplu was a deity of the plague – bringing it, or, if propitiated, protecting from it – and resembles Apollo Smintheus, "mouse-Apollo" worshiped at Troy and Tenedos, who brought plague upon the Achaeans in answer to a Trojan prayer at the opening of Iliad. Aplu, it is suggested, comes from the Akkadian Aplu Enlil, meaning "the son of Enlil", a title that was given to the god Nergal, who was linked to Shamash, Babylonian god of the Sun, and with the plague.

Apollo Smintheus, 1280 BC
Trojan War, c. 1194 - 1184 BC



According to the Roman writer Virgil its legendary founder was the seer Helenus, a son of the king Priam of Troy, who had moved West after the fall of Troy with Neoptolemus and his concubine Andromache. The Greek historian Dionysius of Halicarnassus, as does the Latin poet Virgil, wrote that Aeneas visited Bouthroton after his own escape from the destruction of Troy.

The Chaonians claimed that their royal house was of Trojan descent, asserting ancestry through the eponymous hero Chaon (Ancient Greek: Χάων) who gave his name to Chaonia. The stories are unclear as to whether he was the friend or the brother of Helenus, the son of Priam of Troy, but in either case, he accompanied him to the court of Neoptolemus, the son of Achilles who was credited with founding the city of Buthrotum. The stories concerning Chaon's death are as unclear as that of his relationship to Helenus. Chaon was either killed in a hunting accident or offered himself as a sacrifice to the gods during an epidemic, thus saving the lives of his countrymen. In either case, when Helenus became the ruler of the country, he named a part of the kingdom after Chaon. The Chaonians' neighbours, the Molossians and Thesprotians, also asserted Trojan ancestry. - Buthrotum, Chaonians



Drevni grčki naziv Ἑλλήσποντος (Hellespontos) znači "more od Helle", bio je drevni naziv za uski prolaz.

Helle fell off and drowned in the strait now named after her, the Hellespont.


Scodra, Shkodër - Scamander

Scamander /skəˈmændər/ (Skamandros, Xanthos) (Ancient Greek: Σκάμανδρος, Ξάνθος) is the name of a river god in Greek mythology. According to Hesiod, he is the son of Oceanus and Tethys. He is alternately described as a son of Zeus. He was the father of King Teucer, whose mother was the water nymph Idaea. - Shkodër




Geografske odlike Troje su oko Skadra

Nije moguće pronaći planinu u Hisarliku (gde je Šlimanova Troja), koja bi se mogla videti – zajedno s Trojom i morskom obalom, kako je to sve posmatrao, s Tračkog vrha (na Šar planini), Bog Posejdon:

"Cela se otuda Idska planina mogla da vidi,
Vidio se Prijamov grad i ahejske lađe".

Milutin Jaćimović kaže, da se sa Šar planine, ili s Koraba, mogu videti: Prokletije, Troja i morska obala Jadrana – kako to opisuje i ovaj stih "Ilijade", a takve slike nema na Hisarliku.


Na Hisarliku nema ni reke, koja bi predstavljala, vodom bogatu, Skamandar, koja, pre nego što se ulije u more, nosi vodu i osam svojih pritoka. A na Hisarliku, pored Šlimanove Troje, teče jedna mala reka, više potok. I kad su letnje žege, ona presuši. "Ilijada" spominje, u blizini stvarne Troje, pored reke Skamandar, još jednu reku – ni nalik potoku na Hisarliku. Reč je o reci Simoneti, koju je Jaćimović prepoznao kao reku Drim, a siguran je – da je antički Skamandar današnja reka Bojana.

Rijeka Drim kod Skadra

Drim i Bojanu spaja i danas jedan vodeni rukavac, koji se spominje i u "Ilijadi". Evo opisa Troje i te dve reke s rukavcem u "Ilijadi":

"A kad stignu do Troje i dveju tamošnjih reka,
Onde gde Simonet i Skamandar združuju vale,
Tu zaustavi konje beloruka Boginja Hera,
Od kola ispregne njih i maglom pokrije gustom,
A Bog Simonet njima ambrosije dade da jedu".

U jednom od njih se kaže da Ahil razbi Trojance i jednu grupu gonjaše niz polje, kad je prešao most (brod) na jednoj od 8 reka, Ksantu, između grada i polja:

"Kad naposletku stignu do broda lepotekom Ksantu,
Reci virovitoj, što Div je besmrtni rodi,
Onde razdvoji Trojce Ahilej, te gonjaše jedne".

Rijeka Bojana

Zna se da morske jegulje, kad polažu ikru, to čine u rekama Sredozemlja, pa i u Bojani. To ne bi mogle činiti u potoku na Helespontu, u kojem voda često presušuje. Pogledajmo, jegulje plivaju u Bojani, pored Troje (Skadra) – u Antici, kao i danas:

"Metiljke počnu da gore i brestovi, a s njima i vrbe,
Lotos goreti stane i sita, a s njima i kipir,
Sve što uz lepu je reku na bregu u obilju raslo.
Jegulje i druge ribe u vodi stanu da ginu,
Što su ovud i onud u lepoj plivale vodi".

Stihovi "Ilijade" su s dragocenim sadržajem, uverava nas M. Jaćimović. Oni otkrivaju i najprisutniju odliku reke Zete u Crnoj Gori. Veruje da se Zeta, u vreme Trojanskog rata, zvala Esep, a dolina kroz koju je tekla – Zelija. Stih kaže, da Esep protiče pored najniže strane Idske planine, a Jaćimović vidi, da je reč o Prokletijama, jer se prema Zeti nadnosi najniža strana ove planine.

Još jedna osobina Zete se prepoznaje u stihu "Ilijade" – voda joj je tamna (crna) zbog izobilja algi, koje su uslovljene njenim sporim tokom. Pogledajmo:

"Koji od Zelije behu, od Idske najniže strane,
Imućni ljudi što crnu Esepovu piju vodu,
Te Trojance sin Dikaonov vođaše svetli,
Pandar, koga je sam Apolon obdario lukom".

Strane sveta u "Ilijadi" upućuju na Skadar

Ako se zna da su Peoni živeli oko srednjeg toga Vardara, onda je tačno da im je Skadar bio na severozapadu, kako se u "Ilijadi" određuje položaj Troje.
Peonski vođa je bio Asteropej i on je svoje vojnike vodio do Troje peške. Da je Troja bila u Turskoj, kako tvrdi Šliman, onda bi Peoni morali da preplove Egejsko more i ne bi putovali samo peške, kako to piše u "Ilijadi". Jaćimović navodi i studiju o Troji Aristida Vučetića, u kojoj je upozorenje, da je Dardanija, kojom je vladao Prijam, imala izlaz na istočnu obalu Jadrana, u današnjoj Dalmaciji. Prema tome, teško je poverovati u Šlimanovu tvrdnju, da je glavni grad te Dardanije bio na Hisarliku. Bila bi to ogromna država i onda se na Balkanu i Maloj Aziji ne bi nalazile tolike državice – učesnice u Trojanskom ratu.

Prepoznaju se u stihovima o pogibiji najvećeg trojanskog junaka – Hektora. Kao i danas, žene su se, posle smrti rođaka ili supruga, oblačile u crno. Prvi obred je naricanje, ili tužaljka, za pokojnikom. Jedna žena glasno nariče, a druge je, plačom i tišom kuknjavom, prate. Danas je taj običaj prisutan kod Srba – najviše u Crnoj Gori, Hercegovini i Bosni. U ovim pokrajinama bi i danas žene plakale za Hektorom, kao što je to činila njegova majka Hekaba – pre više od tri milenijuma:

"Tužnjavu bolnu Hekaba međ’ ženama trojanski poče:
‘Sine, jadne li mene! A zašto da nesrećno živim,
Kad mi pogibe ti? U gradu, danju i noću, ti mi bejaše ponos…’
Tako tužeći reče, a za njom su ridale žene,
Tako ridajuć’ reče i tuženju podstakne drugu.
Kad već mrca uvezu u dvorove slavne, na odar,
Metnu ga probušeni, a postave uz nj pevače,
Tužnjave začinjače, i zapevahu oni
Zapevku bolnu, a žene iza njih stanu da plaču.
Od njih beloruka Andromaha prvu tužaljku počne,
Hektora rušivojske u rukama držeći glavu…"

Hektorova supruga Andromaha, što se čini i danas za umrlim suprugom, nastavlja tužaljkom:

"Mladi mi izgubi život moj vojno! Udovicu mene
U kući ostavljaš ovde! A luđan još nam je sinčić,
Kojeg nesretno rodismo mi, a ne mislim da će on
Do konja dorasti; s vrha pre će se ovaj srušiti
Grad, jer nesta braniča mu – tebe, a ti ga branjaše,
Čestite žene mu branjaše i ludu mu decu!…
Hektore! A najveći bol će ostati meni,
Jer mi nisi ruke sa samrtnog pružio odra,
Ni reč mi rekao mudru i utešnu, da bih se uvek
Sećala nje, obdan i obnoć roneći suze!"

Skadar kao Troja ili Ilion.... prema nekim tumačenjima jedini prostor koji je mogao primiti tolike silne "grčke" brodove koji su krenuli u Ilionski rat jeste prostor današnje Velike plaže u CG i njenog nastvka u Albaniji. Dalje, tokovi rijeka, ne današnji već nekadašnji (Skadarsko jezero je jezero tek od skora, a da je tako govori činjenica da se, kao starinski kod starih ljudi u CG zadržao naziv "Skadarsko blato") Tok rijeke Cijevne, koji je danas ni nalik nekadašnjem, rijeka Zeta, Morača, Drim, kao i karakteristike planinskih lanaca, perspektive sa pojedinih vrhova, u potpunosti odgovaraju opisu iz Ilijade geografije prostora koji će biti poprište buduće bitke. Na kraju, niko ne zna kojem vremenu pripadaju najstariji slojevi i temelji stare skadarske tvrđave.


Jadran je Odisejevo more

Jasen Boko tragovima Homerovog junaka

Sve je pogođeno - lokacije iz Homerovog epa u potpunosti odgovaraju dalmatinskim mjestima

Gotovo tri mjeseca putovao sam Mediteranom, Odisejevim tragovima, od Troje preko Peloponeza, Krete, Sicilije i Malte, preko Jadrana pa do konačnih destinacija velikog putnika, Krfa i Itake. Putovao sam jer sam želio otkriti koliko je u Homerovoj Odiseji stvarnog, životnog materijala, a koliko fikcije i je li moguće u današnjem Sredozemlju pronaći destinacije između kojih je Odisej lutao na svom desetogodišnjem povratku iz Troje.

Tražio sam i Mediteran, kakav smo nekad poznavali, zanimalo me postoji li u globaliziranom svijetu, u kojem se sve više gube specifičnosti i različitosti, još onaj poznati mediteranski duh. Dvogodišnji projekt s puno pripreme, putovanja i, konačno, pisanja, rezultirao je knjigom “Tragovima Odiseja”. Nakon svega čini mi se: pronašao sam odgovore na svoja pitanja.

Uništena Malta

Da, Mediteran kakav smo poznavali još postoji, premda je danas dobro skriven, ali svatko voljan odmaknuti se od utabanih turističkih staza još uvijek može pronaći ribare, sela u kojima starci kartaju i pričaju o buri “čistoj curi”, komentiraju današnji ulov i začude se kad ugledaju turista.

Takvih mjesta ima posvuda, od Krete i Peloponeza, preko Sicilije, pa sve do Jadrana, samo su malo teže dostupna nego nekad. Jedino na Malti nisam našao ni M od tradicionalnog Mediterana, globalizacija je tamo dovršila posao. Na drugo pitanje, kojim je arhipelagom lutao Odisej proganjan Posejdonovim bijesom i olujama, također mislim da sam pronašao odgovor.

Nemam nikakvih dvojbi da Homer opisuje stvarne događaje, s razumljivom dozom mašte koja dodaje začudne efekte kako bi ono o čemu govori bilo slušateljima što uzbudljivije. A ti su se stvarni događaji, otkriva svaki redak Odiseje, događali u Jadranu, nikako na Siciliji i oko nje, kako već milenijima tvrde tumači Homera. Razloga za ovu tvrdnju je puno i njima se u knjizi detaljnije bavim, ovdje nudim tek kratki sažetak.

Nikakva Sicilija

Prvo, Odisej sasvim očito plovi sasvim nepoznatim arhipelagom negdje u Mediteranu, dijelom kojeg civilizacija nije dotakla. U Odisejevo i Homerovo vrijeme jedini nepoznati dio Mediterana s kojim Grci imaju rijetke kontakte jest Jadran. On je mistično “sjeverno” more naseljeno “primitivnim” i ne osobito ljubaznim stanovnicima kako ih vide grčke legende i opisuje Odisej. Drugo, kroz cijelu Odiseju prijateljski vjetar koji zalutale mornare vodi prema Itaki je maestral, sjeverozapadnjak, jugo je neprijateljsko, ono mornare udaljuje od cilja.

Maestral do Itake

A jedini dio Mediterana s kojeg maestral vodi na Itaku jest upravo Jadran i o tome govori puno dijelova Odiseje.

Kad Kalipsa nakon sedam godina valjanja po krevetu s njim mora Odiseja, odlukom bogova, poslati kući, ona ga savjetuje da sjevernjaču drži na lijevoj strani i daje mu povoljni vjetar, maestral, te kaže da će tako stići na otok Scheriu, današnji Krf na kojem ga čeka Nausikaja.

Da je Kalipsina Ogigija zaista današnji otok Gozo u malteškom arhipelagu, kako tvrde tumači, Odisej bi po njezinim uputama završio u Egiptu, nikako na Krfu.

Uostalom, Krf je na putu prema Itaci samo kad se putuje iz Jadrana. Isto je i kad ga Eol, bog vjetrova, šalje kući s pučinskog otoka. I on mu daje maestral, zašivajući nepovoljne vjetrove u mitsku vreću. Da je Eol zaista živio na današnjim Liparima, po njegovim uputama opet bi Odisej stigao na jugoistok Mediterana, u Afriku, nikako kući, na Itaku.

Kiklop sa Šćedra

Bezbroj je detalja u Odiseji koji jasno upućuju na Jadran, opisi otoka odgovaraju Homerovim opisima, pa Ogigija zaista, od svih mediteranskih otoka, može biti jedino na Mljetu, dok Kirkin otok nikako ne može biti u podnožju brda Circeo na tirenskoj strani Apeninskog poluotoka, ne samo zato jer ono uopće nije na otoku. Korčula se logično nameće kao Kirkina Eeja, dok ni jedno mjesto u Mediteranu ni blizu ne odgovara Homerovu opisu zemlje neljubaznih Lestrigonaca, čija se luka nalazi na ušću rijeke među strmim klisurama, kao Omiš.

Dalje, “niski” otok koza s kojega na susjednom velikom otoku Odisejevi mornari primijete stanište Kiklopa koji žive u pećinama može biti samo Šćedro i obližnji Hvar, dok o Lotofazima, prvoj postaji nakon Troje, koju svi smještaju na obale Afrike, piše prvi poznati mediteranski peljar. Pseudo Skilak u četvrtom stoljeću prije Krista, čovjek koji je oplovio cijeli Mediteran i napisao o tome knjigu, Lotofage izričito smješta u Jadranu, negdje u blizinu današnje Rogoznice. Moglo bi se još navoditi Homerove opise udaljenosti među otocima i njihov izgled, vjetrove i sve ono što jasno određuje srednju i južnu Dalmaciju kao mjesto Odisejeva lutanja.

Bura za sve kriva

Mogao bih ovdje povući paralele s Argonautima koji su, tvrdili su i Grci, malo prije Odiseja putovali Jadranom. Nisu, međutim, odgovorili kako to da ista čudovišta i nimfe, iste neugodne prepreke na koje Jazon, tvrde oni, nailazi u Jadranu, Odisej, navodno, sreće u Tirenskom moru.

No, ako je zaista plovio Jadranom, osnovno je pitanje kako se ahejski putnik, putujući iz Troje na Itaku uopće našao u moru koje mu baš i nije na putu. Ključni se trenutak koji je poremetio planove dogodio već nekoliko dana nakon napuštanja Troje, kad su se brodovi našli na južnom rtu Peloponeza, zloglasnoj Maleji.

Tu je Odiseja dohvatila snažna bura, koja ga je odbacila na otvoreno more, da bi ga nakon toga “olujni vjetrovi” danima nosili do zemlje Lotofaga. Ako pretpostavimo da je taj vjetar koji baca brodove nevelikih maritimnih sposobnosti (ipak se sve događa prije 3000 godina) bura, onda se logičnim čini zaključak da je Odisej završio u Tunisu. No, što ako su “olujni vjetrovi”, koji su na moru smijenili buru, vjetrovi s jugoistoka, odnosno jugo?

Uplovio u Rogoznicu

Jako jugo zaista može puhati danima, čak tjednima, za razliku od bure, a mjesto na koje bi brod bio odbačen onda je – Jadran. Jer svaki pokušaj da se s otoka Djerbe, za koji mnogi tvrde da je zemlja Lotofaga (iako Homer ne spominje otok, nego “zemlju”), definira kasnije desetogodišnje lutanje nema nikakve logike.

Kad se cijela situacija premjesti u Jadran, priča se slaže u potpuno logičnu i jednostavno objašnjivu geografsku cjelinu. Jer, stigavši kod Rogoznice, Odisejeva se mornarica od 12 brodova vraća prema jugoistoku, Itaci, i usput susreće neljubazne stanovnike, sve one negostoljubive “ljudoždere” ilirskih krajeva, pretke današnjih Dalmatinaca.

Naravno da ne treba vjerovati da su tadašnji Dalmatinci zaista bili ljudožderi, ali u takvoj varijanti, posebno kad im se dodaju jednooka čudovišta, pohotne nimfe, čarobnice koje ljude pretvaraju u svinje, sirene koje opijaju mornare pjesmom, podmorski virovi i zmijolika čudovišta, mjesto lutanja postaje krajnje dramatično i uzbudljivo. Jer, Homer nije napisao Odiseju, ona pripada oralnoj tradiciji, pjevala se uz večeru i nekakve gusle, a priča je morala biti jako uzbudljiva da bi satima mogla održati pažnju svojih slušatelja.


The Legends of Troy

The legends claim that the oldest town in the land of Troy (the Troad) was founded by Teucer, who was a son of the Scamander (a stream of Crete, according to John Tzetzes, the 12th century Byzantine poet and grammarian) and the nymph Idaea. During the reign of Teucer, DARDANUS -- son of Zeus and the nymph Electra -- drifted from the island of Samothrace in the Aegean to the Troad, following a great deluge in the Mediterranean area. After he arrived in the Troad, Dardanus received a grant of land from Teucer and married his daughter Batea, shortly thereafter founding the city of DARDANIA at the foot of MOUNT IDA. On the death of Teucer, Dardanus succeeded him as king, and called the whole land DARDANIA.

He sired Erichthonius, who begat TROS by Astyoche, daughter of Simois. Tros named the country TROY (after himself) and the people TROES (TROJANS). By Callirrhoe, daughter of Scamander, Tros had three sons -- Ilus, Assaracus and Ganymede. From two of Tros' sons -- Ilus and Assaracus -- sprang TWO SEPARATE LINES; Ilus, Laomedon, Priam, Hector; and Assaracus, Capys, Anchises, Aeneas.

According to the Encyclopedia Britannica:

Ilus went to Phrygia, where he received, as a wrestling prize from the king of Phrygia, a spotted cow, with an injunction to found a city where she lay down. The cow lay down on the hill of the Phrygian Ate; here Ilus founded Ilion; and Dardania, Troy and Ilion became one city. Desiring a sign from Zeus, Ilus prayed and found lying before his tent the Palladium, a wooden statue of Pallas, for which he built a temple. By Eurydice, daughter of Adrastus, he had a son, Laomedon, who married Strymo, a daughter of Scamander (or Placia, daughter of ATREUS or of Leucippus). In his reign, Poseidon and Apollo (or Poseidon alone), built the walls of Troy, but Laomedon withheld their reward. In his reign also, HERACLES besieged and took the city, slaying Laomedon and his children, except one daughter, Hesione, and one son, Podarces. -- 1943 edition. Vol. 22, p. 503.

According to the legends, the life of this Podarces was spared at the request of Hesione -- on condition that Podarces first be a slave and then be redeemed by Hesione. Hesione gave her veil for him; hence his name of PRIAM (Greek for "to buy"). After gaining his freedom, Priam first married Arisbe and then Hecuba, fathering 50 sons and 12 daughters! Among these sons were HECTOR and PARIS, and among the daughters Polyxena and Cassandra.

Paris became betrothed to Oenone, and awarded the golden "apple of strife" to Aphrodite (who promised him the love of the fairest of women) and brought upon Troy the resentment of Hera and Athena.

Following this Paris, visiting Sparta, found favor with HELEN, heiress of Tyndareus and wife of MENELAUS, SON OF ATREUS, and carried her to Troy. To recoverANS under AGAMEMNON, brother of Menelaus, besieged Troy for ten years. In the tenth year of the siege Hector was killed by Achilles, and Helen, the ACHAE he by Paris.

Finally a wooden horse was built, inside of which many Achaeans hid themselves. The Greek army and fleet then withdrew to Tenedos -- pretending to have ended the siege. The Trojans, seeing the Greek army was gone, opened the gates and conveyed the wooden horse into Troy. That night the hidden Greeks stole out of the horse, opened the gates of the city to the returning Greeks, and Troy was finally taken.


Ilijada i Odiseja

Prema Elijanu, Ilijada i Odiseja bile su napisane na brigijskom jeziku (nakon prelaska u Malu Aziju, po Trojanskom ratu, Brigi se nazivaju frigi) i prevedene su na starogrčki - ionski dijalekt. Krajem 6. stoljeća prije Krista, Platon je također tvrdio da su mnoge grčke riječi potekle iz frigiskog jezika. Brigi (Frigi) smjestio se planinsko područje južno od Ohrida, odakle je Homer nesumnjivo. Strabon u geografiji kaže da su Iliri, Epirci i Makedonci govorili isti jezik. Kako su Brigi (kasniji Frigi) živjeli u graničnom području Makedonije, Ilirije i Epira (tromeđa), logično je da je i njihov jezik istovremeno ilirski, makedonski i epirski, jer su razlike među njima na razini dijalekta istog jezika.

Veliki povjesničar iz XIX stoljeća John Campbell navodi: "Zapadno od Makedonije živjeli su Dardani i Iliri, dva imena koja obilježavaju jedan isti narod". Profesor Sorbonne u mirovini, uporedni lingvista Milan Ristanović, objavio je poslije 40 godina proučavanja, studiju u kojoj dokazuje da se Odisejevo lutanje zbiva na prostoru Južnog Jadrana, od Krfa do Splita, kao i da je Posejdon ilirski bog. On se poziva na istaknutog američkog znanstvenika iz XX stoljeća Mosesa Finlija, koji u studiji Svijet Odisejev dokazuje da je opisani način života iz Ilijade i Odiseje doista postojao. Prof. Ristanović ističe da je o Troji i Homerske problemu napisano preko 5.000 knjiga, koje u najvećem broju ne objavljuju ništa, jer je osnovni postulat istine - lokacija trojanske zemlje i Troje bila pogrešna. Slično Herodotu i Arijanu, Plutarh navodi da pri pohodu na Perziju, Aleksandar Makedonski svraća u Ilij, po ugledu na Kserksa, prinijeti žrtve i pokloni se herojima. O Troji u Maloj Aziji, Ariane piše u Aleksandriji i Pausani nakon Herodota.

Gore spomenuti drevni pisci prvi su i jedini povijesni izvori nakon Ilijade, koji indirektno određuju mjesto Troja (Ilion). Profesor, Ristanović je u potpunosti poricao navodni Shloman nalaz Troja u Maloj Aziji, oštro kritizirajući njegovu osobnost, pokazujući da je prijevara. Šliman je pitao Troya na mjestu gdje se Herodot i Plutarh približio pokušavajući pronaći rimski grad Novi Ilion. Stariji izvori Ilijada i Odiseja pokazuju upravo da su Troja i mjesto Trojanskog rata smješteni na obalama drugog mora - Jadranskog mora.

Herodot piše oko 750 godina poslije Trojanskog rata i skoro 100 godina poslije prijevoda i redakcije Ilijade i Odiseje na starogrčki, a Plutarh, Arijan i Pausanija pišu oko 1.300 godina poslije Trojanskog rata oko 400 godina poslije Herodota oko 600 godina poslije prevođenja Ilijade i Odiseje . Tko nam garantira da Herodot i Plutarh nisu dopisivane i prepravljani od brojnih redaktora i prepisivača, da bi se trojanska tradicija prenijela u drugo podneblje i prisvojila? Izvjesno je samo to da se prema njihovom zemljopisnom određenju ne može naći Troja, suglasna opisu Ilijade i Odiseje! Kako i poslije treće redakcije, aleksandrijske, Ilijada i Odiseja precizno opisuju teren trojanske zemlje i grada Troje na obalama Jadrana, očito je da su stari pisci krivotvoreni, kao što je to izvjesno kada se govori o milijunskom broju perzijske vojske, koju Kserkso vodi na Europu i Atenu. Nijedna drevna država nije imala vojsku s preko milijun ljudi. rimsko carstvo u zenitu moći, veće i mnogoljudnijim od perzijske imperije, imalo je oko 40 legija, tj. oko 400.000 vojnika. Ovdje je, očito, Helenova želja da se fantastično poveća njihova bitka. To je učinjeno i sa Trojom, kako bi se izmestila iz, za njih barbarskog ilirskog svijeta, u područje njihovih novih kolonija u Maloj Aziji.

Moguće je i da je Herodot doveden u zabludu nekom helenskom obradom mita, nastalom poslije prijevoda Ilijade i Odiseje na starogrčki, u kojoj je stavljeno do znanja da je Troja tu negdje u Maloj Aziji, a da je time obmanuo i Aleksandra, Plutarha, Arijana, Pausaniju i Rimljane sve do cara Konstantina (koji je bio Ilir), za koje je zajedničko da su poštovali staru slavu svojih predaka.

Oko 850 godina prošlo je od trojanskog rata do Aleksandra Velikog. U današnje vrijeme suvremene tehnologije i pismenosti, kao i intenzivnih znanstvenih istraživanja, vrlo malo i pogrešno znamo o mnogim povijesnim događajima, starim gradovima, mjestima bitaka i načinu života ljudi 750, 850, ili 1.300 godina unatrag. Postoji tako velika udaljenost između Trojanskog rata i Herodota, Aleksandra i Plutarha. Kakvo je naše znanje o povijesti našega naroda u XIII., XII., VII. I VI. Stoljeću? Priznajemo, vrlo rijetke i nepotpune!

Prema navodu Ljubomira Domazetovića 7 , makedonski lingvista Odisej Belčevski pronašao ogroman broj riječi u Ilijadi i Odiseji, koje su slične ili jednake riječima u današčem makedonskom i srpskom jeziku. Domazetović na istoj strani konstatira: "Najstarija pisana i sačuvana dijela helensko-ilirske književnosti svakako su Ilijada i Odiseja, pisani tzv. heksametar, koji ima velike sličnosti s pisanjem herojskih pjesama sa Srbima. Upotrebljeni jezik je ionski s primjesama eolskog, što ukazuje na to da je Homer Ilir, a ovi jezici i pismo ilirski. U pisanom obliku korištena je Ilirska-Helenska abeceda. " Domazetović ne zna da je to prijevod s izvornog jezika, ali i preko prijevoda se razaznaje da je Homer Ilir, što je u osnovi točno (Brežani - Brđani, Frižani su saveznici Trojanaca).

Fanula Papazoglu smatra da je Brigija (Frigija) granična oblast ilirske države, pa je iz svega jasno da je to trojanska država. Iliri su dobili ime po svome prestonom gradu, koji je imao u drugom periodu i ime Sarda, jer su Iliri Sardi, odnosno Sardana (Dardani). Ilirska zemlja je trojanska zemlja, a Iliri su zapravo Trojani. Antička Srbija u unutrašnjosti kopna se nazivala Dardanije (Sardanijom) po vladaru Dardan, odnosno Sardana, Sarbonu iz XIV stoljeća prije Krista, a antička Srbija uz Jadransko More nazivala se Ilirija, u jednom razdoblju po gradu Iliju, kao što se i narod nazivao Trojancima po grad Troja, drugi naziv za Iliju. Često je slučaj u Dardanskom svijetu da grad ima više imena. Troy je dobila ime po vladaru Trosu (Troy), iz iste Dardanske dinastije.

Profesor Radivoje Pešić i ove riječi, koje sve govore o srpskom i slovenskoj pripadnosti Troje: "Komparativne lingvističke analize Homerovog djela Ikonomidia i Dankovskog, koji savršenom preciznošću izvlače analogije iz helenskog, latinskog i slovenskog jezika, uzbuđuju svojom egzaktnošću i upućuju na Pelaste u kojima nalaze moćna slovenska komponenta. Ovo sad pomiče pelaska krug na istok, zapad i sjever gdje će oni ostaviti svoj jezični utjecaj i danas vrlo prepoznatljiv. "Prof. Pešić navodi i istraživanja profesora Harvardskog Sveučilišta Milmana Parija, koji je pronašao da srpski pjevači (guslari) pjevaju pjesme dužine Homerovih pjesama u kojima je našao Homerove scene, Homerova sredstva i Homerove predmete poezije. Također prof. Psić također navodi da je pred parijama ovaj problem istražio srpski Milan Budimir. a na kraju zaključuje: "Ikonomidi i Dankovski, Budimir i Milman Pari su, dakle, ukazali ne samo na veliko slovensko leksičko blago koje je sadržano u Homerovim spevovima, već i na prave izvore strukture i ritma kojima na svojevrstan način oživljavaju dramatičnost radnje, što je proizvod jednog duha čije začetke tradicije nalazimo u nesagledivoj dubokoj prošlosti, a čijeg smo trajanja svjedoci.

"Ilijada određuje Troju kao strmeni i vjetroviti Ilion, veliki grad koji se nalazi na visokom, strmom i vjetrovitom brijegu, ispod kojeg se dvije rijeke spajaju rukavcem, a na velikom polju između rijeka koje odvojeno utječu u more vodi se grandiozna bitka, u kojoj sa trojanske strane na kraju rata sudjeluje oko 50.000 biraca, a ahajska vojska je znatno brojnija. Pored sukoba pješaštva, na polju se vode i borbe bojnih kola (ratnih dvokolica), pa je potrebno bojno polje široko i dugačko najmanje po 10 km, da bi na njemu moglo se kreće i bori preko 100.000 ratnika.

Kako kaže Ilijada, s lijeve strane ahajske vojske, koja napada od morske obale i svojih preko 1.000 malih brodova izvučenih na ogromnu morsku plažu, nalazi se rijeka Skamandar, što je Bojana - Skadar - Morača, a na desnoj strani je Simonet, tj. Drim. Rijeke se pod Trojom spajaju rukavcem, koji je plitak i pri izlasku na bojište trojanska vojska ga prelazi, kako izričito navodi Ilijada.

Trojanska svijeta planina je vrelovita Ida, s koje zaštitnik Trojanaca bog Apulunus (Apolon) promatra bojište, gledajući Trojancima u leđa, a Ahajcima u lice. Ida je vijenac Prokletija, najmoćniji vijenac na Balkanu, dug 80 km i visok 2694 m, koji je izučio Jovan Cvijić, a ime mu je dao kršćanski narod, zbog brojnih antičkih svetišta na njemu. I danas su u podnožju Prokletija brojna kršćanska svetišta i stari gradovi na temeljima antičkih.

Skadarska tvrđava je najveće i najmoćnije utvrđenje brdskog tipa na Sredozemlju, za koje se ne zna vrijeme nastanka. Vjerojatno potječe iz II ili III tisućljeća prije Krista. Njegovi bedemi okružuju oko 2 hektara, i potpuno odgovaraju opisu Ilijade. Grad se nalazi na dovoljnoj udaljenosti od mora, da bi se između dvije rijeke mogla odvijati opisana bitka dvije velike vojske. Na ovom prostoru se nalaze sve rijeke opisane u Ilijadi, kao i trojanski saveznici: Likijci (iz Zete - "bogati ljudi iz želija sa idske najniže strane, što Esepa crnog piju vodu", kako navodi Ilijada), Dardani koji su istočno od Drima, Peonci s Vardara, Tračani, Pelazgi od Grudama Larise, Brežani (Frižani) - južno od Ohrida. Svi oni se nalaze na udaljenosti od samo nekoliko dana hoda, svi putuju do Troje kopnom, kako i opisuje Ilijada i nalaze se kompaktno raspoređeni oko nje. Pa i sam Enej, koji je po legendi poslije rata otišao u Lacijum s dijelom Trojanaca, mogao je to lako izvesti s ovih prostora, što mu iz Male Azije ne bi bilo moguće.

Kako je već istaknuto, Odisej je lutao u Jadranskom moru, što je još jedan dokaz da se Troja nalazila na njegovoj istočnoj obali, nešto južnije od arhipelaga po kome je lutao. Dokaz više je i činjenica da se lako utvrđuje analogija između homerske i srpski narodne epske poezije, što je logično ako je Troja prijestolnica Trojanaca-Ilira-Srba, tj. ako je Skadar već približno tri tisuće godina glavni grad istog naroda, pripadali su i ljudi Homera. Na Mediteranu nema ni jedan grad, koji bi poput Skadra sa toliko detalja odgovarao opisima iz Ilijade.


Prva izvorna Troja je bila Skadar, au Maloj Aziji, Italiji, Balkanu i Zapadnoj Europi osnivani su kasnije gradovi s takvim imenom, po ugledu na slavni i sveti grad, radi pozivanja na slavnu tradiciju i porijeklo. Ime Troje nosili su i London i Padova, ai danas ih ima više: Krujë ili Tropolje u današnjijem Albaniji, Troyes u Francuskoj, Troja kod Fođe u Italiji. Kod nas ima više toponima s imenom Troje, a ime Trojan, Trojanka je često ime kod Srba, u Bugarskoj, Južnoj Srbiji i Makedoniji.

Heleni su iz političkih razloga izmestila trojansku tradiciju u Malu Aziju, u područje svojih kolonija, koje su u tom predjelu nastale u VI stoljeću prije Krista, kada su dali i ime Helespont tjesnacu Dardaneli. Nakon toga je vršena redakcija Ilijade i Odiseje pri prevođenju na ionski helenski dijalekt u Ateni za vrijeme tiranina Pizistrata i njegovih sinova. Do ureda ureda Aleksandrija, nove pjesme su dodane. Ovo se prije svega odnosi na Helespont, sugerirajući da je Troja u Maloj Aziji. O mogućnosti da je Herodot opisao novonastalu tradiciju u Maloj Aziji, ili njegov spis prepravljan, potvrđuje i nelogičnost da Kserkso navodno ide u Ilion da se moli i prinese žrtve bogovima, ali ti bogovi nisu njegovi, već su to bogovi i heroji njegovih neprijatelja. Ovim apsurdom se najbolje oslikava cinizam Helena prema barbarima.


Agamemnonov lov i prokletsvo

Žena sa stećka je Artemis odnosno Diana, trojanska boginja mjeseca, divljači i lova. Njen simbol je polumjesec. Na statuama i spomenicima je najčešće predstavljena sa podignutim rukama i trojanskom krunom na glavi. Ta kruna je često u obliku kule ili kule sa tri tornja. što je i ovdje slučaj, a nekad je i u obliku polumjeseca.

Prije pohoda na Troju vođa Danajaca Agamemnon je ulovio jelena kao žrtvu bogovima. Međutim, ispostavilo se da je ulovio pitomog jelena koji je boginji bio najdraži. Vidjevši to, ona ga je proklela i zaklela se da njegov pohod na Troju ne može početi sve dok Agamemnon umjesto jelena ne prinese svoju kćer kao žrtvu.


Origin of the Trojans

The TROES were so called, evidently, after the name of their eponymous ancestor, Tros:

The names of Skamandros and Kadmos (and of many others external to the canon of the Iliad and Odyssey) figure prominently in the early history of Troy. However, only through the genealogy of the royal house of Priam may one detect a notion about the chronology and transmission of tenets, which, in the course of time, became consolidated under a common Trojan ethos or cultural identity—

XX; 215:

At the first Zeus, the cloud-gatherer, begat Dardanus, and he founded Dardania, for not yet was sacred Ilios builded in the plain to be a city of mortal men, but they still dwelt upon the slopes of many-funtained Ida. And Dardanus in turn begat a son, king Erichthonius, who became richest of mortal men. Three thousand steeds had he that pastured in the marsh-land... And Erichthonius begat Tros to be king among the Trojans, and from Tros again three peerless sons were born, Ilus, and Assaracus, and godlike Ganymedes that was born the fairest of mortal men... And Ilus again begat a son, peerless Laomedon, and Laomedon begat Tithonus and Priam and Clytius, and Hicetaon, scion of Ares....

What may be adduced from this genealogy, as literary ethnological theory goes, is that the consolidation of Troy, which is to say a 'federation' of Trojans, was an integration of a wide diversity of ethnic groups from everywhere, and, consequently, of character traits. The process began, it could be said, with the Early Bronze Age—developing throughout several comings and goings in and out of Troy—

and culminating, near 1250 B.C., in the Early Iron Age— 

DARDANUS: Arrived in Troy—possibly from Gortyn (later called Rome), though commonly thought to have come from Cortona in Central Italy—and founded the district of Dardania. He established religious rites (in later times erroneously thought to be the so-called Samothracian Mysteries). His name perhaps means 'dart man'.

ERICHTHONIUS: (He was, according to some legends, autochthonous (born of the soil, or Earth) and raised by the goddess Athena.)Established the Temple of Athene on KALLIKOLONE (Gabela, Stari Grad) after which he emigrated and founded Athens (which later became Taras/Tarentum), taking with him horse-lore which became popular throughout all Apulia. His name, which means 'wool of the earth' was likely inspired by the hairy tarantula.

TROS: Arrived in Troy from Athens (Taras/Tarentum), where he was born. He founded the city of Ilios which he called after the name of his son, Ilos.

ILOS: He named the land Troia after the name of his father Tros, because it was 'divided' into 'three' districts, and set up on Ilios (Gabela) the image of Athene which had fallen from heaven (the fabled palladium which, after the Trojan War, was taken to Rome). He emigrated, leading a Pelasgian colony to Italy's Tyrhennian coast, where they settled in the fertile valley of Larisa (the classical Liris, today Garigliano) and founded Pelasgian Argos on the coast (classical Caieta, today Gaeta). His name means 'mud man' or, by extension, 'wasp man', because wasps build their sarcophagus-like dwellings out of ilo-, 'mud'. 

LAOMEDON: Arrived in Troy from Italy's Tyrhennian coast, where he was born. He brought with him elements of Sardianian nuraghic culture, as might have been the walls of Ilios and as, most certainly, the walls of Troia [Taroia]t. 


It was from these comings and goings into and out of Troy that, over an extended period of time—perhaps some three or four centuries—at the time of the Trojan War (near 1200 B.C.), several tribes formed a closely-knit federation under the name of Troes (or Trojans)—

The Iliad's authorship, it seems, was fully aware of the need of connecting those tribes which had been known as Trojans with tribes, which, after the Trojan War, would henceforward be known as Illyrians, and appears to have made a special proviso for such a connection. Of all the Phrygian tribes, it is only in the names of the Leleges and Kadmeioi where an idea of a 'fostered progeny' might be detected. In the name of the Leleges, is the eponymous ancestry of a certain Lelex from the Tyrhennian coast, and in the name of the Kadmeioi is the eponymous ancestry of Kadmos from the Adriatic's headwaters.

  • Troja was in Illyria


Trojansko kolo na stećcima





Posla Trojanka Na Vodu

Oral tradition of Slavic people is so rich that it could rewrite known Illiad from Homer.  Generation after generation epics were brought to this day.

One of them is song from SE Serbia called "Posla Trojanka Na Vodu " (Trojan girls goes for water)

Posla Trojanka Na Vodu - Song
Posla Trojanka Na Vodu - Dance


Posla mi, posla mi, lele, lelele,
Posla Trojnaka na vodu,
Posla Trojanka na vodu,
Na vodu, na vodu, lele, lelele,
Na vodu na Jermeniste,
Na vodu na Jermeniste

Susrete, susrete, lele, lelele,
Susrete mlado momcence,
Susrete mlado momcence,
Stani mi, stani mi, lele, lelele,
Stani mi lutko batina,
Stani mi lutko batina

Ne smejem, ne smejem lele,lelele,
Ne smejem bate da stanem,
Ne smejem bate da stanem,
Tata je, tata je lele, lelele,
Tata je mnogo nervozan,
Tata je mnogo nervozan,

Pa ima, pa ima, lele, lelele,
Pa ima bate levorver,
Pa ima bate levorver,
Pa ce me, pa ce me, lele, lelele,
Pa ce me bate ubije,
Pa ce me bate ubije


Trojansko kolo - Crete

Traditional dancers at "Sfakian Liberation Festival". - Crete


Curetes & Korybantes

Toma Arhiđakon kaže da se Hrvatska u starini zvala Kuretija po narodu Kureta ili Koribanata. Za to da su Kureti u starini živjeli na Jadranu navodi svjedočanstvo rimskoga pjesnika Lukana.

Curetes (Ancient Greek: Κουρῆτες) were a legendary people who took part in the quarrel over the Calydonian Boar. Strabo mentioned that the Curetes were assigned multiple identities and places of origin (i.e. either Acarnanians, Aetolians, from Crete, or from Euboea). However, he clarified the identity of the Curetes and regarded them solely as Aetolians. Dionysius of Halicarnassus mentioned the Curetes as the old name of the Aetolians.

Korybantes were the armed and crested dancers who worshipped the Phrygian goddess Cybele with drumming and dancing. They are also called the Kurbantes in Phrygia. The conventional English equivalent is "Corybants".

Corybantian dance

The name Korybantes is of uncertain etymology. Edzard Johan Furnée and R. S. P. Beekes have suggested a Pre-Greek origin.
Others refer the name to *κορυβή (korybé), the Macedonian version of κορυφή (koryphé) "crown, top, mountain peak", explaining their association with mountains, particularly Olympus.

The Phrygian Korybantes were often confused by Greeks with other ecstatic male confraternities, such as the Idaean Dactyls or the Cretan Kouretes, spirit-youths (kouroi) who acted as guardians of the infant Zeus. In Hesiod's telling of Zeus's birth, when Great Gaia came to Crete and hid the child Zeus in a "steep cave", beneath the secret places of the earth, on Mount Aigaion with its thick forests; there the Cretan Kouretes' ritual clashing spears and shields were interpreted by Hellenes as intended to drown out the infant god's cries, and prevent his discovery by his cannibal father Cronus. Emily Vermeule observed,

This myth is Greek interpretation of mystifying Minoan ritual in an attempt to reconcile their Father Zeus with the Divine Child of Crete; the ritual itself we may never recover with clarity, but it is not impossible that a connection exists between the Kouretes' weapons at the cave and the dedicated weapons at Arkalochori".

Among the offerings recovered from the cave, the most spectacular are decorated bronze shields with patterns that draw upon north Syrian originals and a bronze gong on which a god and his attendants are shown in a distinctly Near Eastern style.

Korybantes also presided over the infancy of Dionysus, another god who was born as a babe, and of Zagreus, a Cretan child of Zeus, or child-doublet of Zeus. The wild ecstasy of their cult can be compared to the female Maenads who followed Dionysus.

The scholar Jane Ellen Harrison writes that besides being guardians, nurturers, and initiators of the infant Zeus, the Kouretes were primitive magicians and seers. She also writes that they were metal workers and that metallurgy was considered an almost magical art. There were several "tribes" of Korybantes, including the Cabeiri, the Korybantes Euboioi, the Korybantes Samothrakioi. Hoplodamos and his Gigantes were counted among Korybantes, and Titan Anytos was considered a Kourete.

The Kouretes dancing around the infant Zeus

Homer referred to select young men as kouretes, when Agamemnon instructs Odysseus to pick out kouretes, the bravest among the Achaeans to bear gifts to Achilles. The Greeks preserved a tradition down to Strabo's day, that the Kuretes of Aetolia and Acarnania in mainland Greece had been imported from Crete.




O moreški se u nas kroz prošlost pisalo mnogo više nego o drugim plesovima. U nas se izvodila u Trogiru, Zadru, Splitu, Visu, Hvaru, Dubrovniku, a jedino je u Korčuli još možemo vidjeti uživo.


Luk i strijela

''Bog Sunca, sa lukom srebrenim i strijelom što daleko leti, moćni Apulu, on je hrabrog Pandara od Like, što Trojancima vjeran bješe, učio koristiti luk.'' - Ilijada

Luk i strijela na stećcima



Research into oral epics in Serbo-Croatian and Turkic languages, pioneered by the aforementioned Parry and Lord, began convincing scholars that long poems could be preserved with consistency by oral cultures until they are written down. The decipherment of Linear B in the 1950s by Michael Ventris (and others) convinced many of a linguistic continuity between 13th century BCE Mycenaean writings and the poems attributed to Homer.

Kada je njemački filolog/lingvističar/leksikograf/homerolog Ludwig Franz Passoff (1786 - 1833) analizirao najstarije manuskripte i prevode Ilijade u njima je naletio na mnoštvo riječi koje nije mogao prevesti ni na starogrčki niti na latinski jezik. Poznavao je češko-slovački pa je neke od njih uspio identifikovati kao slavenske. Poznavanjem naših južnoslavenskih jezika, mi danas lako možemo prepoznati i mnoge druge riječi.

Homer: DAVER - Slav.: DEVER/DJEVER - English: brother-in-law
Homer: SVEKURO - Slav: SVEKAR - English: father-in-law
Homer: SVEKURA - Slav: SVEKRVA - English: mother-in-law
Homer: ZOIOVA - Slav: ZAOVA - English: sister-in-law
Homer: EITERVI - Slav: JETRVA - English: husband's sister
Homer: SINU - Slav: SIN - English: son
Homer: SNUKA - Slav: Snajka - English: daughter-in-law
Homer: TETA - Slav: TETA/TETKA - English: aunt
Homer: TATE - Slav: TATA - English: father
Homer: MAILA - Slav: MAJKA - English: mother
Homer: EVESTIA - Slav: NEVESTA/NEVJESTA - English: bride
Homer: DORA/DARA - Slav: DAR - English: dowry
Homer: ESTHIO - Slav: JESTI/JESTIVO - English: to eat
Homer: BIA/BIE - Slav: BIJE/BITI (tući) - English: to beat
Homer: DOLIKHO - Slav: DOLGO/DUGO - English: long
Homer: FOINOS - Slav: VINO - English: wine
Homer: MORTO - Slav: MRTVO - English: dead
Homer: PRICI - Slav: PRICI/PRECI - English: ancestors
Homer: PAIMITI - Slav: PAMTITI - English: to remember
Homer: VEIDO/VEIDEN - Slav: VIDI/VIDJETI - English: to see
Homer: ISKARE - Slav: IZGORI/IZGORJETI- English: to burn
Homer: IDRI/ITAR - Slav: HITAR - English: quick
Homer: KOTLE - Slav: KOTAL/KOTAO - English: cauldron
Homer: OKKO/OKKOS - Slav: oko - English: eye
Homer: ODITI/ODITIS - Slav: HODITI/HODATI - English: to Walk
Homer: ITHI - Slav: IĆI - English: to go
Homer: DOMA - Slav: DOM - English: Home
Homer: ETOI - Slav: ETO - English: There/See
Homer: MOI - Slav: MOJ/MOJE - English: mine
Homer: TIMBA/TIMBARA - Slav: TINTARA - English: Head
Homer: SPHOI - Slav: SVOJ - English: one's own
Homer: OIMOGE - Slav: ZAPOMAGA - English: Lamentation
Homer: BHEUGO - Slav: BIJEG - English: escape
Homer: ISON - Slav: ISTO - English: Same/equal
Homer: KAKEN - Slav: KAKANO - English: dirty
Homer: OIKUDE - Slav: OTKUDA - English: whence
Homer: POTLE - Slav: POSLIJE - Enlish: later
Homer: POITE - Slav: POJITI/PITI - English: to drink
Homer: PROSEPHE - Slav - PROZIV(A) - English: to call out
Homer: CHARIENTA - Slav: ŠARENA - English: Colorful/beautiful
Homer: THALASSA - Slav: TALASI - English: Waves
Homer: BHAINO - Slav: BAJNO - English: Beautiful
Homer: TRIS - Slav: TRIŠ - English: Three times

Mnogi i danas tvrde da su Ilijada i Odiseja djela staroslavenskih/ilirskih guslara, da su se prvobitno prenosile pjesmom, te da su tek nekoliko stoljeća poslije zapisane na papir i prevedene da druge jezike.

Ivan Gundulić

Ivan Gundulić prije nekih 400 godina reče:

''Pri moru uprav srpskih strana,
u pržinah pusta žala
leži Troja ukopana,
od grčkoga ognja pala;
slavna Troja, ka je svime
njegda Istokom gospodila,
a sad ino nije neg ime
nakon sebe ostavila.
Gdi su miri, gdi su dvori?
Nije zlamenja od ničesa:
što ognju osta, vrijeme obori
i pohara i poplesa...''



Na ovom stećku predstavljeni su trojanac Ganimed i Heba, vinonoše bogovima.


Zeus je Ganimeda ugledao dok je čuvao ovce na planini Idi i poslao je orla po njega, da bude vinonoša bogovima. Neke legende nude malo drugačiju verziju u kojoj je Zeus lično došao po njega u formi orla. Kako god, mladić sa orlom je u svim mitologijama Trojanac Ganimed.


South Slavic folklore and mythology


Diomed na Jadranu

Diomed je junak tebanskog kruga priča iz trojanskog rata (pod zidinama Troje ranio Aresa i Afroditu koji su pomagali Trojance), utemeljio je – prema lokalnim legendama – više svetišta na jadranu.

- Diomedova svetišta: Palagruža, Rt Ploča (Promonturium Diomedis)

Ulomak fine grčke posude s urezanim imenom Diomeda na grčkom (5. st. pr. n. e.).

Catalogue of Ships

Trojan War - Trojans

Mases (Ancient Greek: Μάσης), is an Ancient Greek city in Argolis, located near the village of Koilada, NE of Kranidi. Mases was part of Diomedes's kingdom and is mentioned by Homer in the Catalogue of Ships. - Catalogue of Ships



Kad su se Danajci vraćali iz Troje, iznenadio ih je jak zapadni vjetar i odnio ih u Taranto.


TROJA - Konfederacija Dardana, Paeona i Briga

TROJA - konfederacija Dardana, Paeona i Briga


Trojan Battle Order

The Trojan Battle Order or Trojan Catalogue is an epic catalogue in the second book of the Iliad listing the allied contingents that fought for Troy in the Trojan War. The catalogue is noted for its deficit of detail compared to the immediately preceding Catalogue of Ships, which lists the Greek contingents.

The Greek catalogue occupies 265 lines but the Trojan catalogue only 61, Page wonders why the Ionian authors know so little about their native land and concludes they are not describing it but are reforming poetry inherited in oral form from Mycenaean times - Denys (1963), History and the Homeric Iliad

, Kopljanici
Ciconians, Kopljanici, Tračani
Paeonians, Strijelci
Paphlagonians, Enet, Veneti
Halizones ?
Phrygians, Bryges
Maeonians - Lydia
Carians, Sea Peoples
Lycians, Sea Peoples
List of Trojan War characters




Iz Ilijade znamo da su Brigi bili jedno od tri glavna trojanska plemena, branitelji kule Priamove.

Herodot (484 - 425 p.n.e) kaže da u Malu Aziju dolaze tek u osmom vijeku p.n.e., i to sa Balkana gdje su se zvali BRIGI. Značenje ovog imena može prevesti samo sa naše ikavice. Brig - brijeg - brdo, što opet odgovara najčešćem opisu Ilira - brđani, gorani.

Ekrem Akurgal (1911 - 2002), turski specijalista za drevne kulture Anatolije. On je bio jasan da se njihovo prisustvo u Turskoj arheološki može potvrditi tek za osmi vijek p.n.e., što će reći oko 500 godina poslije trojanskog rata, te još dodaje kako njihovi najraniji artefakti neodoljivo podsjećaju na artefakte sa naših prostora iz kasnog bronzanog doba.

Ali nisu Herodot i Akurgal jedini koji to tvrde...

Herodotov istovremenik i kolega historičar Xanthus kaže ''Frigi su došli u Malu Aziju nekad poslije trojanskog rata.''

Arrian (92 - 175), još jedan grčki historičar, piše da su Frigi u Malu Aziju došli kao izbjeglice, nakon što su ih iz djedovine protjerali Cimmeri/Čimeri.

Sveti Jeronim (347 - 420) je zabilježio da je u novoj domovini prvi brigijski kralj bio Midas, koji je vladao od 696. do 742. godine p.n.e., kao i da je njegov otac Gordias bio Makedonac iz trojanske kraljevske obitelji.


Bryges - Phrygia

Y-DNA G2a2


The Phrygians (gr. Φρύγες, Phruges or Phryges) were an ancient Indo-European people, initially dwelling in the southern Balkans – according to Herodotus – under the name of Bryges (Briges), changing it to Phruges after their final migration to Anatolia, via the Hellespont.

From tribal and village beginnings, the state of Phrygia arose in the eighth century BC with its capital at Gordium. During this period, the Phrygians extended eastward and encroached upon the kingdom of Urartu, the descendants of the Hurrians, a former rival of the Hittites.

According to ancient tradition among Greek historians, the Phrygians anciently migrated to Anatolia from the Balkans. Herodotus says the Phrygians were called Bryges when they lived in Europe. He and other Greek writers also recorded legends about King Midas that associated him with or put his origin in Macedonia; Herodotus, for example, says a wild rose garden in Macedonia was named after Midas. Some classical writers also connected the Phrygians with the Mygdones, the name of two groups of people, one of which lived in northern Macedonia and another in Mysia. Likewise the Phrygians have been identified with the Bebryces, a people said to have warred with Mysia before the Trojan War and who had a king named Mygdon at roughly the same time as the Phrygians were said to have had a king named Mygdon. The classical historian Strabo groups Phrygians, Mygdones, Mysians, Bebryces and Bithynians together as peoples that migrated to Anatolia from the Balkans. This image of Phrygians as part of a related group of northwest Anatolian cultures seems the most likely explanation for the confusion over whether Phrygians, Bebryces and Anatolian Mygdones were or were not the same people.

The apparent similarity of the Phrygian language to Greek and its dissimilarity with the Anatolian languages spoken by most of their neighbors is also taken as support for a European origin of the Phrygians. Phrygian continued to be spoken until sixth century AD, though its distinctive alphabet was lost earlier than those of most Anatolian cultures.

A system of writing in the Phrygian language developed and flourished in Gordium during this period, using a Phoenician-derived alphabet similar to the Greek one.

Phrygia was famous for its wine and had "brave and expert" horsemen.

Herodotus also claims that Phrygian colonists founded the Armenian nation.



Kibela na kolima koja lavovi vuku prema žrtveniku (desno). Iznad su bog Sunca i nebeska tijela

Cybele (Phrygian: Matar Kubileya/Kubeleya "Kubileya/Kubeleya Mother", perhaps "Mountain Mother"; Lydian Kuvava; Greek: Κυβέλη Kybele, Κυβήβη Kybebe, Κύβελις Kybelis) is an Anatolian mother goddess.

Cybele, Kybele, Kuvava = Keva (Magna Mater)


Phrygian language

The Phrygians spoke Phrygian, an Indo-European language. Some contemporary historians, among which Strabo is the most known, consider the Phrygians a Thracian tribe, part of a wider "Thraco-Phrygian" group. Other linguists dismiss this hypothesis since Thracian (and hence Daco-Thracian) seem to belong to the Satem group of Indo-European languages, while Phrygian shared several similarities with other Indo-European languages of the Centum group (like Latin, Greek or the Anatolian languages). According to the latter group, of all the Indo-European languages, Phrygian seems to have been most closely linked to Greek, suggesting that the two languages belonged to the same dialectal subgroup of early Indo-European. Although the Phrygians adopted the alphabet originated by the Phoenicians and ultimately from Ancient Egyptians, only a few dozen inscriptions in the Phrygian language have been found, primarily funereal, and so much of what is thought to be known of Phrygia is second-hand information from Greek sources.

A conventional date of c. 1180 BC is often used for the influx (traditionally from Thrace) of the pre-Phrygian Bryges or Mushki, corresponding to the very end of the Hittite empire. Following this date, Phrygia retained a separate cultural identity. E. g. in classical Greek iconography the Trojan Paris is represented as non-Greek by his Phrygian cap, which was worn by Mithras and survived into modern imagery as the "Liberty cap" of the American and French revolutionaries.

After the collapse of the Hittite Empire at the beginning of the twelfth century BC, the political vacuum in central-western Anatolia was filled by a wave of Indo-European migrants and "Sea Peoples", including the Phrygians, who established their kingdom with a capital eventually at Gordium. It is presently unknown whether the Phrygians were actively involved in the collapse of the Hittite capital Hattusa or whether they simply moved into the vacuum left by the collapse of Hittite hegemony. The so-called Handmade Knobbed Ware was found by archaeologists at sites from this period in Western Anatolia. According to Greek mythographers, the first Phrygian Midas had been king of the Moschi (Mushki), also known as Bryges (Brigi) in the western part of archaic Thrace.

Phrygian bread

A famous Phrygian word is bekos , meaning "bread" (the same root is found in Albanian bukë bread, English bake and Greek φώγω ( phōgō )).

According to Herodotus (Histories 2.2) Pharaoh Psammetichus I wanted to determine the oldest nation and establish the world's original language. For this purpose, he ordered two children to be reared by a shepherd, forbidding him to let them hear a single word, and charging him to report the children's first utterance. After two years, the shepherd reported that on entering their chamber, the children came up to him, extending their hands, calling bekos. Upon enquiry, the pharaoh discovered that this was the Phrygian word for "wheat bread", after which the Egyptians conceded that the Phrygian nation was older than theirs. - Phrygian language


Bryges or Bryges (Greek: Βρύγοι or Βρίγες) is the historical name given to a people of the ancient Balkans. They are generally considered to have been related to the Phrygians, who during classical antiquity lived in western Anatolia. Both names, Bryges and Phrygians, are assumed to be variants of the same root.

The earliest mentions of the Bryges are contained in the historical writings of Herodotus, who relates them to Phrygians, stating that according to the Macedonians, the Bryges "changed their name" to Phryges after migrating into Anatolia, a movement which is thought to have happened between 1200 BC and 800 BC perhaps due to the Bronze Age collapse, particularly the fall of the Hittite Empire and the power vacuum that was created. In the Balkans, the Bryges occupied central Albania and northern Epirus, as well as Macedonia, mainly west of the Axios river, but also Mygdonia, which was conquered by the kingdom of Macedon in the early 5th century BC. They seem to have lived peacefully next to the inhabitants of Macedonia, however, Eugammon in his Telegony, drawing upon earlier epic traditions, mentions that Odysseus commanded the Epirotian Thesprotians against the Bryges. Small groups of Bryges, after the migration to Anatolia and the expansion of the kingdom of Macedon, were still left in northern Pelagonia and around Epidamnus.


The best-known Gordias was reputedly the founder of the Phrygian capital city Gordium, the maker of the legendary Gordian Knot, and the father of the legendary King Midas who turned whatever he touched to gold. The various legends about this Gordias and Midas imply that they lived sometime in the 2nd millennium BC.

In the founding myth of Gordium, the first Gordias was a poor farmer from Macedonia who was the last descendant of the royal family of Bryges. When an eagle landed on the pole of his ox-cart, he interpreted it as a sign that he would one day become a king. - Gordias

Bryges > Phrygia & Brigantii

Celtic tribe named Brigantii is mentioned by Strabo as a sub-tribe in these region of the Alps. In the 5th century BC, the Celts settled at Brigantion, which was one of their most heavily fortified locations.


Frigijska kapa i djetelina

Brigijska-frigijska kapa je poznata u svijetu od pamtivjeka. Ona je simbol slobode i mudrosti. Ime je dobila po istoimenom trojanskom plemenu. Istu je na glavi imao trojanski princ Paris tj. Lisander kada je Ahila smrtno ranio strijelom. Njihove uniforme su takođe tipične za ilirska i tračka plemena ALI i za etrurska, kao što možete vidjeti na statui etrurskog ratnika iz Italije. Etrurske i rimske priče o trojanskim izbjeglicama kao njihovim precima i osnivačima su brojne.

Frigijska kapa - Iliri, Tračani, Frigijci

Djetelina se u Ilijadi spominje nekoliko puta. Posebnu važnost je dobila nakon što je trojanski princ i vojskovođa Hektor u boju ubio Ahilovog rođaka i najbližeg druga Patrokla, misleći da ubija Ahila. Naime, mladi Patroklo je nosio Ahilov oklop i kacigu. Ahil se tada zakleo da će ostvetiti njegovu smrt i da neće stati dok Hektorova krv ne prekrije svaki listić djeteline. I tako listić djeteline, natopljen Hektorovom krvlju, postade trojanski simbol.

Iste brigijske kape kao ove na nekropoli Radmilja, ima još na dva stećka isto žene sa djetelinom, te na nekropolama Donje Hrasno i nekropola Ravanjska vrata, sa brigijskim lovcima i ratnicima...



Frigijska kapa - White Crown

Paris of Troy wearing a Phrygian cap - Attis wearing a Phrygian cap

White Crown Upper Egypt & Orpheus

  • White Crown; Thebes, Egypt (Upper Egypt) > Thebes, Greece (Orpheus) > Trojans Brigi & Paris > Phrygia (Attis)



Morphing of letters
B = V = P = Ph = F

Between Phrygians and Brygians, namely letters F and B there is morphing letter V cause F=V and on eastern Europe V=B and that gives Vryg ,could be Vrag which means devil in todays "slavonic" language from that area.

In armenian tongue Pryg/Pryk means people on hills that did the bee-keeping, a sacred animal to Phrygian Kybele. Goddess have been demonised by rape, humiliation and linguistics, these perversions are present in all languages.

Vryg is cognate with Virgo, in hungarian Virag for example. Other word for devil in slavic is Djava which is nobody else but Deva-Virgin in slavic tongue.

Official his-story renamed everything, then chopped the time line out of sequence and then stitched it back wrong.

Bryges or Briges (Greek: Βρύγοι or Βρίγες) is the historical name given to a people of the ancient Balkans.


Mēn - Min

Mēn (Greek Μήν "Moon") was a lunar god worshipped in the western interior parts of Anatolia. Strabo describes Mēn as a local god of the Phrygians.

  • Mēn = Min (Mina)


Homer speaks of Paeonians from the Axios fighting on the side of the Trojans.

Paeonia (Pan + Ionia) > Pannonia
Pan = Min

Pan - Pannonia



From Dardanus' grandson Tros the people gained the additional name of Trojans and the region gained the additional name Troad. Tros' son Ilus subsequently founded a further city called Ilion (in Latin Ilium) down on the plain, the city now more commonly called Troy, and the kingdom was split between Ilium and Dardania.

Sir Anthony Wagner, The Royal Arms College says that: the traditional founder of Troy‘s famed royal house was Dardanus, a few generations prior to Tros and Ilus: "Dardanus, in Greek legend, the son of Zeus and the Pleiad Electra, founder of Dardania. He was the ancestor of the Dardans of the Troad ...

Dardanos (Δάρδανος), one of the sons of Illyrius (the others being Enchelus, Autarieus, Maedus, Taulas, and Perrhaebus) was the eponymous ancestor of the Dardanoi (Δάρδανοι). Some Roman ethnographers proposed a connection between Dardani of the Balkans and the Dardans of Troy, having a group of Dardan colonists settle in the Balkans and subsequently degenerate into a state of barbarism, but the Romans considered them to be Greeks as a whole.


Dardanus Origins

From Ron Custer's research:

Listed as "Dara" in 1 Chron. 2:6 in the Bible.

An examination of some of the historical clues reveals that Darda, "the Egyptian", (son of Zarah) was "Dardanus", the Egyptian founder of Troy: "Hecataeus, therefore, tells us that the Egyptians, formerly, being troubled by Clamities, in order that the divine wrath might be averted, expelled all the aliens gathered together in Egypt. Of these, some, under their leaders Danus and Cadmus, migrated to Greece" (Fragmenta Historicorum, by Muller; vol. II, pg. 385 - copied from the works of Hecataeus of Abdera, a fourth-century B.C. Greek historian). The descendants of Darda ruled ancient Troy for some hundreds of years, until the city was destroyed in the famous "Siege of Troy". Aeneas, the last of the royal blood, (Zarah-Judah), collected the remnants of his nation and traveled with them to Italy. There he married the daughter of Latinus, king of the Latins and subsequently founded the great Roman Empire.

Was There More Than One Exodus Out of Egypt?


Trojan prince Helenos

The Roman poet, VIRGIL, tells us in his Aeneid (Book III) that this area of the Adriatic coast was founded by A GROUP OF TROJAN EXILES who fled Troy after the Greek victory. The exiles were under the leadership of HELENUS who, in Greek legend, was a son of PRIAM and Hecuba, and twin brother of Cassandra. This HELENUS was line of DARDANUS.

The Encyclopedia Britannica notes that "after the capture of Troy he [HELENUS] and his sister-in-law Andromache accompanied Neoptolemus (Pyrrhus) as captives to EPIRUS, where HELENUS persuaded him to settle. After the death of Neoptolemus, Helenus married Andromahe and became ruler of the country. He was the reputed FOUNDER OF the cities of BUTHROTUM AND CHAONIA, named after a brother or a companion, who he had accidentally slain while hunting." (1943 edition. Vol. II, p. 393). 

Norman Hammond, in an article "Dashing Through Albania" (Archaeology magazine, Jan/Feb. 1993) expresses the following: "Butrint (ancient BUTHROTUM) lies just south of Saranda on a rocky peninsula. Its legendary founding as a NEW TROY [was] by (according to Vergil) the TROJAN PRINCE HELENOS and Andromache, widow of HECTOR..." (p. 76).

Eventually the city of EPIDAMNUS was founded by the "Hellenes" (also known as DYRRAHION) and it is from this word that DURRES, as the city is known today, derives its name.

The "Hellenes" established a NEW COLONY to the south of Epidamnus, which they named APOLLONIA (now Pojan) in honor of the god Apollo. This new colony was built on a hill a mile or so from the coast and on the banks of the Vjosa River. Since the river was navigable from that point westward, Apollonia had an indirect outlet to the Adriatic Sea -- thus keeping it within the trade routes.


Many European kings from Rome, Ireland and England have alleged that they descended from the family of the Trojan Kings

The account is found in Aeneid , written by the Roman historian Virgil, recorded in Funk and Wagnall:

The AENEID is a mythical work in twelve books, describing the wanderings of the hero AENEAS and a small band of TROJANS after the fall of Troy. Aeneas escaped from Troy. . carrying his aged father on his shoulders, and leading his young son ASCANIUS by the hand, but in the confusion of his hasty flight he lost his wife, Creusa.... Aeneas was shipwrecked on THE COAST OF AFRICA and welcomed by DIDO, Queen of CARTHAGE...

After visiting SICILY again and stopping at CUMAE.,.. Aeneas was welcomed by LATINUS, KING OF LATIUM. [Aeneid fought for the hand of Latinia King Latium’s daughter] .... thus making possible the marriage of Aeneas and Lavinia.... and his son ASCANIUS FOUNDED ALBA LONGA, the mother city of Rome.” -- Vol. I. MCMLXXV, p. 196

This letter is quoted in full by Geoffrey of Monmouth, the letter written to Julius Caesar: Cassibelaun, king of the Britain, to Caius Julius Caesar.

We cannot but wonder, Caesar, at the avarice of the Roman people, since their insatiable thirst after money cannot let us alone whom the dangers of the ocean have placed in a manner out of the world; but they must have the presumption to covet our substance, which we have hitherto enjoy'd in quiet. Neither is this indeed sufficient: we must also prefer subjection and slavery to them, before the enjoyment of our native liberty. Your demand therefore, Caesar, is scandalous, since the SAME VEIN OF NOBILITY, FLOWS FROM AENEAS, IN BRITONS AND ROMANS, and ONE AND THE SAME CHAIN OF CONSANGUINITY SHINES IN BOTH: which ought to be a band of firm union and friendship. That was what you should have demanded of us, and not slavery: we have learned to admit of the one, but never to bear the other. And so much have we been accustomed to liberty, that we are perfectly ignorant what it is to submit to slavery. And if even the gods themselves should attempt to deprive us of our liberty, we would to the utmost of our power resist them in defense of it...


The Annals of the Romans tell us, After Aeneas founded Alba, he had a son named SILVIUS. When Silivus’ wife became pregnant, Aeneas sent a wizard to examine the wife and determine whether the baby was male or female.

After examining Silvius' wife, the wizard foretold that the woman had a male in her womb who would be the child of death --would eventually kill his father and mother.

During the birth of the child, Silvius' wife died, and the boy was reared by the father and named BRITTO (BRUTUS).

Many years later, the young man BRITTO killed his father by accident while practicing archery with some friends -- fulfilling the wizard's prophecy.

Because of this terrible accident, BRUTUS was DRIVEN FROM ITALY and came TO THE ISLANDS OF THE TYRRHENE SEA. And He eventually landed in Britain.

Britannica Ency., "Brut, any of several medieval chronicles of Britain tracing the history and legend of the country from the time of the mythical Brutus, descendant of Aeneas and founder of Britain.

From Wikipedia Ency, "Brutus or Brute of Troy is a legendary descendant of the Trojan hero Aeneas known in medieval British legend as the eponymous founder and first king of Britain . This legend first appears in the Historian Britonum a 9th century historical compilation attributed to Nennius, but is best known from the account given by the 12th century chronicler Geoffrey of Monmouth in his Historia Regum Britanniae

The reference David Williamson, in his book "Kings and Queens of Britain," comments on Geoffrey of Monmouth's writings:

Geoffrey of Monmouth, writing in the first half of the twelfth century, sought to tell the story of Britain from its...FOUNDATION BY BRUTUS THE TROJAN until the coming of the Saxons...Geoffrey claimed that his History of the Kings of Britain was translated from 'a certain very ancient book written in the British language' which had been given to him by Walter, Archdeacon of Oxford. It was dedicated to two of the LEADING NOBLEMEN of the day, Robert, Earl of Gloucester (d. 1147) [a]...son of King Henry I, and Waleran, Count of Mellent (d. 1166).

In it he tells of the wanderings of BRUTUS, the great-grandson of AENEAS, forced to leave Italy after accidentally killing his father and eventually, after many adventures, COMING TO ALBION, which he renamed BRITAIN from his own name, after driving out the aboriginal giants. The story continues with the...deeds of BRUTUS' DESCENDANTS and successors FROM ABOUT 1100 B.C. “ - Dorset Press, N.Y. 1992, p. 8.

The arrival of Trojans in Britain is traced by E. Raymond Capt:

The descendants of DARDA (DARDANNES or DANAANS) ruled ancient TROY for several hundred years, until the city was destroyed in the famous "Siege of Troy." AENEAS, the last of the ROYAL BLOOD, (Zarah-Judah) collected the remnants of his nation and traveled with them to ITALY. There he married the daughter of LATINUS, king of the Latins, and subsequently FOUNDED THE GREAT ROMAN EMPIRE. Aeneas' GRANDSON, BRUTUS with a large part of the TROJANS migrated to "the GREAT WHITE ISLAND" (an early name for BRITAIN due to its chalk cliffs).

Tradition says that on the way to the "White Island" Brutus came across FOUR OTHER TROJAN COLONIES UPON THE COAST OF SPAIN and persuaded them to join him.

The WELSH RECORDS state that THREE TRIBES OF HIS COUNTRYMEN received Brutus and his company as BRETHREN and proclaimed Brutus KING at a national convention of the whole island.

HIS THREE SONS, born after his arrival in Britain were named after the three tribes -- LOCRINUS, CAMBER, and ALBAN. Brutus' name HEADS THE ROLE in all the genealogies of the British kings, preserved as faithfully as were those of the kings of Israel and Judah. -- Missing Links Discovered in Assyrian Tablets, p. 65-66.

Edward I, who removed the Stone of Destiny from Scone in Scotland to London, used to BOAST about his descent from the Trojans.

The Irish and Scottish kings, Fergus and EDWARD HIMSELF were all DESCENDANTS OF JUDAH: in fact it is said that EDWARD used to boast of his DESCENT FROM THE TROJANS!" (Co-Incidences? Pointers to Our Heritage, by Brigadier G. Wilson).

William F. Skene, author of a book on the Stone of Destiny, states that, "THE KING OF ENGLAND, by whom the kingdom of Scotland was derived from ALBANACTUS, THE YOUNGEST SON OF BRUTUS, THE EPONYMUS OF THE BRITONS, while that of ENGLAND WAS DERIVED FROM LOCRINUS, THE ELDEST SON." (The Coronation Stone, p. 21).

  • London se zvao Troy


Trojans family tree

Oceanus Tethys
Atlas Pleione Scamander Idaea Simoeis
Zeus/Jupiter Electra Teucer
Dardanus Batea
Ilus Erichthonius Astyoche
Callirrhoe Tros
Ilus Ganymede Assaracus Hieromneme
Laomedon Themiste Capys
Priam Anchises Aphrodite/Venus Latinus
Creusa of Troy Aeneas Lavinia
Ascanius Silvius
Silvius Aeneas Silvius
Brutus of Britain Latinus Silvius
Tiberinus Silvius
Romulus Silvius
Numitor Amulius
Ares/Mars Rhea Silvia
Hersilia Romulus Remus


Oceanus & Tethys

Oceanus & Tethys

M. L. West detects in the Iliad's Deception of Zeus passage an allusion to a possible archaic myth "according to which [Tethys] was the mother of the gods, long estranged from her husband," speculating that the estrangement might refer to a separation of "the upper and lower waters ... corresponding to that of heaven and earth", which would parallel the story of "Apsū and Tiamat in the Babylonian cosmology, the male and female waters which were originally united (En. El. I. 1 ff.)", but that "by Hesiod's time the myth may have been almost forgotten, and Tethys remembered only as the name of Oceanus' wife." This possible correspondence between Oceanus and Tethys, and Apsū and Tiamat, has been noticed by several authors, with Tethys' name possibly having been derived from that of Tiamat. - Tethys kao Tiamat

  • Apsū & Tiamat = Oceanus & Tethys

Preceded by: Sumer > Hyksos > Skadar (Troy)


Skamandros (Ancient Greek: Σκάμανδρος,)

  • Scamander = Scodra, Shkodër


Trojans - Rome



The Paphlagonians were one of the most ancient nations of Anatolia and listed among the allies of the Trojans in the Trojan War (ca. 1200 BC or 1250 BC, where their king Pylaemenes and his son Harpalion perished (Iliad, ii. 851—857). According to Homer and Livy, a group of Paphlagonians, called the Enetoi in Greek, were expelled from their homeland during a revolution. With a group of defeated Trojans under the leadership of the Trojan prince Antenor, they emigrated to the northern end of the Adriatic coast and later merged with indigenous Euganei giving the name Venetia to the area they settled.

Pylaemenes was the king of the Eneti tribe of Paphlagonia. He claimed to be related to Priam through Phineus, as the latter's daughter Olizone was married to Dardanus. He led his Paphlagonian forces to the Trojan War, as a Trojan ally. Pylaemenes was killed in battle by Menelaus of Sparta. - Pylaemenes


Veneti - Thalassocracy

Nakon Trojanskog rata

Veneti - Y-DNA T1a

''Od Mozohah, Paflagonacah i od Meda Ilirah znano je iz dogodovštine rata Trojanskoga da su u onome ratu Trojancim mnogo i virno pomagali. Cicu svoga junaštva i virnost bihu još u ono vrime rata od Gerkah nazvani Henete, koja rič u naš jezik zlamenuje Slavu. Odovuda, toliko s oni koliko s ovi kraj Dunaja stanujući, jednorodni Skite, Sarmate, Gete i Iliri zadobiše ime Slovenah.''
- Zora Dalmatinska 1848.

After fall of Troya Ahayans massacrated  the rest of Troyan army.
Two Troyans Enej and Antenor  welcomed them with peace and traditional Hellenic hospitality so that acording to Ahayan war traditions they have been spared.
Enet lost his throne in Pylamene near Troya and left with his possesions in direction of Adratic sea,
he then expelled Euganes from their territory between Alps and Adriatic sea.
Place where they landed they called Trojano, people were called Veneti.

Veneti is same as Vendi, Vandals, Anti and most likely Phoenicians.

Enet > Veneti


Veneti su drevni stanovnici nekoliko europskih regija

  • Adriatic Veneti, drevni narod živjeli su na sjevernom jadranu.
  • Vistula Veneti, drevni povijesni narodi sjeverne središnje Europe, koji su živjeli u blizini rijeke Visle i Baltičkog mora.
  • Veneti (Gaul), drevna "Keltska” plemena opisana u antičkim izvorima, živjeli su u  današnjoj Brittany, Francuska.
  • Paphlagonian Veneti, drevni narod živjeli su na sjeveru Anatolije.


Veneti (Galija)

"Galski" Veneti bili su pleme koje je potkraj željeznog doba živjelo na području Armorica, u današnjoj Bretanji. Opisivalo ih se kao narod moreplovaca, koji je gradio jedrenjake sa debelom oplatom, sposobne za plovidbu na obalama Atlantika.
Veneti su uspješno pružali otpor Cezaru te ga prisilili da sagradi vlastitu flotu. Iako su rimske galije na vesla ispočetka bile inferiorne brzim venetskim jedrenjacima. Cezarov admiral Decim Junije Brut Albin je na kraju kod današnjeg Morbihana, koristeći dugačke kuke, uspio uništiti venetsku flotu, te su na kraju poraženi i nestaju iz povjesti.


Prisutnost Veneta kroz drevne nazive

Regija Veneto i grad Venezia (Venecija). Baltičko more nekad zvano Venetic more (Venedos kolpos, Wendile mare), isto tako Venetic zaljev na sjevernom Jadranu. U Bretanji (sjeverozapadni poluotok Francuske) nalazimo Venetic zaljev i otok Vindilis. U antici po Cezaru (De Bello Gallico) u ovoj zemlji dominirali su Veneti.


Odnos između Veneta i Slavena

Izvorni Slaveni nisu koristili etnonim Veneti za opisati svoj ​​etos (koristili su izraz "ZLO-wene"). Prema tome, moguće je da su germanski narodi prenjeli etnonim Veneti na Slavene. Takvi transferi etnonima iz jedne skupine u drugu nisu neobični i često su se događali u povijesti.

Etnonim Veneti vrlo je proširen u Europi pa i u onim dijelovima u kojima sigurno nikada nije bilo Slavena i njihovih predaka; Veneti po kojima je ime dobila današnja Venecija živjeli su na jadranu.

U antičkoj Galiji, u blizini današnjega Vannesa, živjelo je jedno "keltsko” pleme koje se nazivalo Veneti, a u području Makedonije Herodot je zabilježio i jedno ilirsko pleme imenom Enetoí, što se pravilno izvodi iz starijega Wenetoi.

Njemački jezikoslovac, Aleksandar M. Schenker, tvrdi da vokabular slavenskih jezika, ne pokazuje da su rani Slaveni bili izloženi moru. Schenker tvrdi da proto-slavenski nije imao pomorsku terminologiju i tvrdi da nisu imali ni riječ za jantar, koji je bio najvažnija stavka izvoza sa obala Baltika do Mediterana.

Iz onoga što o Venetima kaže Tacit ne možemo zaključiti gotovo ništa, osim da se vjerojatno radi o nekom negermanskom narodu ili skupini plemena. Imaju li Tacitovi Veneti ikakve veze sa Slavenima jednako je nepoznato kao i to, radi li se o ostatku istih Veneta koji su se u pretpovijesno doba nastanili na obalama Jadrana. U svakom slučaju, Germani su vrlo lako mogli prenijeti ime nekoga predslavenskog naroda na Slavene, kad su jednom s njima stupili u dodir.

»Ovdje je kraj Svebije. Da li da narode Peucinjana, Veneta i Fena pripišem Germanima ili Sarmatima, nisam siguran. Premda Peucinjani, koje neki zovu i Bastarnima, po govoru, nošnji, postojbini i prebivalištima žive kao Germani. U svih vlada prljavština i lijenost. Lica velikaša, zbog uzajamnih ženidaba, poprimila su nešto od ružnoće Sarmata. Veneti su mnogo toga preuzeli od njihovih običaja: što se god, naime, šuma ili planina izdiže između Peucinjana i Fena, tuda u razbojstvima krstare. Oni se ipak prije ubrajaju među Germane jer i kuće grade i štitove nose i raduju se iskustvu pješačenja i trčanju, što je sve suprotno od Sarmata, koji žive na kolima i na konju.« (Tacit, Germania 46, 1, 2).


Venetic language

In his 1937 work, Krahe discussed the Venetic language, known from hundreds of inscriptions as an Illyrian language, which forms the separate Illyrian branch of the Indo-European language family with the Messapian of southern Italy and the Illyrian spoken in the Balkans. Krahe thought that only the name of the Illyrian and Adriatic Enetos peoples were the same. Homer mentions a people in Asia Minor, the Paphlagonians, as coming from the Enetai province, and a few hundred years later Herodotus refers to the Enetos people twice, once as Illyrian and again as the occupants of the Adriatic sea. Krahe thought that the name of the Illyrian and Adriatic Enetos peoples are the same and if Adriatic Enetos were Venets and Venets were the Veneds mentioned in other sources then Illyrian and Veneds were the same people. The basis of this theory is the similarity of the proper nouns and place names, but most of all in the water names of the Baltic and the Adriatic (Odra, Drava, Drama, Drweca, Opawa, Notec, etc.). Having the model of Illyrian in mind, he assumed that together these elements represented the remnant of one archaic language.


Raetia - Noricum

Raetia - Noricum

In his Natural History (1st century AD), Pliny wrote about Alpine peoples:

Adjoining these (the Noricans) are the Rhaeti and Vindelici. All are divided into a number of states. The Rhaeti are believed to be people of Tuscan race driven out by the Gauls; their leader was named Rhaetus.

Pliny's comment on a leader named Rhaetus is typical of mythologized origins of ancient peoples, and not necessarily reliable. The name of the Venetic goddess Reitia has commonly been discerned in the Rhaetic finds.

Many inscriptions are known, but most of them are only short and fairly repetitive, probably mostly votive texts. Rhaetic became extinct by the 3rd century AD, with its speakers eventually adopting Vulgar Latin in the south and Germanic in the north.

The German linguist Helmut Rix proposed that Rhaetic, along with Etruscan, was a member of a proposed Tyrrhenian language family possibly influenced by neighboring Indo-European languages Tyrrhenian language, and thus most closely related to languages such as Etruscan. Common features between Etruscan, Rhaetian, and Lemnian have been found in morphology, phonology, and syntax. Scullard, suggests Rhaetic to be an Indo-European language, with links to Illyrian and Celtic.

  • Noricum - Celtic tribes
  • Raetia - Etruscans


Pojava populacije Savii ili Savensi - Henete

Haplogroup T1a - Haplogroup R1a

Po pokrajini Pannonia Savia tamosnji stanovnici su nazvani Savii ili Savensi. Taj naziv je najvjerojatnije ostao i do danas kao posebnan naziv za pokrajinu Slavonija, u funkciji naziva rijeke Save (Posavina).

Latinski anticki pisci Sextus Rufus (Brev.7) navodi naziv Savus uz oznaku da se tu radi o 'rijeci u Panoniji'. U vezi s time stoji i naziv Savensis za tamosnje pucanstvo. Naprotiv, nazivom Sclavini, Got Jordanes oznacava (u svojoj knjizi 'De Rebus Geticis) - 'narod u susjedstvu Bugara'. Ocito je da Savensi nisu ista populacija kao i Sclavini. No, uz te nazive kod Plinija Starijeg jos imamo i naziv Solvensis (P.S. 'HN', 3.,136) kao «grad u Noricumu».


Tako dobivamo tri slicna ali posve razlicita naziva: Solvensis (Noricum), Savensis (Panonia Savia) i Sclavini (bugarski susjedi).


The possible origin of the ethnonym Veneti relates to the Latin words venus, -eris meaning 'love, passion, grace'.

Venus (/ˈviːnəs/, Classical Latin: /ˈwɛnʊs/; genitive Veneris /ˈwɛnɛrɪs/) is a Roman goddess, whose functions encompassed love, beauty, desire, sex, fertility, prosperity and victory. In Roman mythology, she was the ancestor of the Roman people through her son, Aeneas, who survived the fall of Troy and fled to Italy. Julius Caesar claimed her as his ancestor.

Venus (Aphrodite)


Amber Road - Balto-Slavic languages

Amber Road

Merneptah Index Setnakhte